Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:01 Feeling really lucky to introduce you today to Brooke Skinner Rickets. She is a c e o of Beyond Barriers and co-founder and what a career. She's worked at almost every public company you can imagine, and most recently as a c m o of cars.com, big time jobs. And yet she started this entrepreneurial journey with the real passion for helping women, women advance their careers. Something I'm super passionate about, and I know you're gonna find very, very interesting. Let's listen into Brooke. Brooke, thank you so much for being here. My
Speaker 2 00:00:56 Pleasure. Thanks for inviting me.
Speaker 1 00:00:57 Excited to have you on the Lady Boss Podcast. You have so much to teach us and, uh, so many things that we can certainly get behind on your journey to entrepreneurship. So, um, as you look back, I think, uh, they always refer to entrepreneurship as journeys, you know, toddler, uh, infant, toddler. Um, do you think Beyond Barriers is in the infant stage or are you in toddler stage yet?
Speaker 2 00:01:19 Uh, I think we're definitely in toddler. Okay. Um, yeah, I think, you know, we, we had the privilege of, um, kind of beta testing the idea for about a year and a half, just sort of trying it out in different contexts. And so that, I think we've moved through the, the diaper changing phase <laugh>, the late night diaper changing phase, and I think we've got something that's rolling. Um, but the, you know, the real build part of the toddler is taking it beyond the current core product, which is like a, a bootcamp and into a real platform. So, um, so still a lot to nurture and water and weeded for sure, uh, you know, as you know, with toddlers. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I think I would say early toddler stage.
Speaker 1 00:01:55 So, Brooke, when you refer to the beta test, were you, uh, off on your own in the company or were you still dabbling working up a, a job and then, you know, getting ready to do your big entrepreneurship journey?
Speaker 2 00:02:08 Yeah, I was still working full-time. Okay. Uh, as a C-suite executive at a public company and, you know, leading a huge team and replatforming a 20 year old website and doing all of those things. Um, and this really started out as a, um, kind of a friendship journey. We started talking about this concept and, and then it very quickly turned into, wait a minute, like, we could, we could do this together. You know, this was a, we thought, you know, we'd love to help the, you know, our friends however we could. And then it turned into this, this could be a thing that we all do together. So,
Speaker 1 00:02:35 Wow. That's incredible. Yes. So that's what I was trying to refer to is I, um, your, your last job was at a public company. You were a C M O, you had a massive, uh, undertaking I know with the website and other marketing initiatives, and if that weren't enough, you decide to start a friendship journey. I hadn't heard you refer to it like that. I love that. Um, and beta test. So by the time you determined that we weren't gonna make this just a friendship, help people, what really drove you to say, Hey, I'm gonna leave my public company, you know, great salary, great perks, great everything, and jump off and, and, and be my own boss.
Speaker 2 00:03:13 Yeah. So I, um, like so many others, uh, did my covid soul search. Right. And so, you know, proceeding this conversation that kind of tipped off, uh, this company, um, I had been searching and thinking sort of, what do I want next? We had been talking succession at my company, um, which was what I thought I wanted my entire life was to run and lead a public company. And then I got, I got very close and, and realized that I wanted to spend my time in a different way. Right. It was, it wasn't about the company. I love the company, I love the people. Yeah. Um, and the work that they're doing. I just felt like there was something more meaningful for me. And so I had been on this kind of seeking journey. Um, our friends, Nikki and Monica came to us sharing, you know, the kind of the, the thinking that they had around this concept.
Speaker 2 00:03:54 And, um, I just got really excited about it, imagining I would consult, you know, and just sort of help 'em get off the ground. And then, um, one night I was talking to my wife, wife, Laura, about sort of, what am I gonna do next? And she said, you know, you've talked to so many different companies and you've done so many different things. I don't think it's out there. She said, I think you're gonna have to buy or build something. She said, I think this is the moment where you just say like, I don't think you're gonna find something where it's somebody else's thing. I think it's time for you to take the leap. Um, which sort of caught me off guard. And then I thought, you know what? I, I think she's right. So she was really instrumental in Go
Speaker 1 00:04:26 Laura and hell, Laura. Right,
Speaker 2 00:04:29 Right. Yeah. Well, she's in it with me, so,
Speaker 1 00:04:31 Oh, yeah. I know, I know. We'll talk about that in a sec. But, um, I think, um, you know, when I had my first, uh, sort of like, I can't get this on the inside, I was 38 or a little bit around that age too. Um, and just, I, I don't know if that's when the real midlife crisis starts, um, but I remember really just feeling like the fear of regret would be much bigger than the fear of failure for me. Does that resonate at all with you?
Speaker 2 00:04:57 Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. I, um, yeah, I mean, I was like kind of racked with pandemic fear, with like, um, uh, insecurity with imposter syndrome, but also just thinking, you know, like, um, one of my biggest fears was, you know, having my kids be teenagers and look at the way I had spent my time and say, what were you doing right? You, you could've been doing so much more. You could've been doing so much more. And so that, you know, some of my own insecurities there, but that was part of what drove me, was I really wanted to feel like what I was doing was meaningful to me. I know that what I was doing in the corporate world was meaningful to a lot of people. And where I landed was I needed to feel like this was meaningful to me and really helping kind of be the change that I wanted to see in the world. So that's, that's what drove me to take the leap.
Speaker 1 00:05:41 So, um, obviously when you have daughters, I think you think about things, um, and I don't, I have sons, but I come from a, a, a girl family, and my dad was just so passionate about we could be anything, we could do anything. And I heard that from a very young age. Despite that my mom was a stay at home mom, I, they told me I could be anything. They believed it so much, they sent us to private school with girls. And I never encountered until I got into my first job. What I know is the reality, which is what, beyond barriers, just dealing with so much today. So how did you get that message? I mean, prior to becoming a mother of girls?
Speaker 2 00:06:16 Yeah. Um, so my mom was a feminist, and, uh, she told me I could be whatever I wanted to be, and I told her I wanted to be a bird. Um, so that was, that was my plan. I was gonna grow up to be a bird. And then that, that dream was crushed, uh, <laugh>. And I figured out, um,
Speaker 1 00:06:30 A smart child's, like, what do I do with that? Thank you.
Speaker 2 00:06:34 Um, so I, you know, I, I think in terms of kind of, I, uh, I think part of my success was, um, just fully embracing my naivete. I started working in the corporate world when I was 19 years old. Um, I don't think I had any idea what I was doing. I walked into rooms like people should listen to me. And sometimes, you know, I was told no. And then I'd be like, okay. You know, 'cause I was a puppy, you know, <laugh>. Yeah, yeah. When I started. Um, and then I started to gain some momentum, and the momentum was sort of what carried me forward. And then I started to get smarter and I had some amazing mentors, but, um, but I did encounter it pretty early. I mean, my first job was, my first client at the ad agency was Cummins Engine. So my first assignment was go out to a truck stop, pay truckers 20 bucks to talk to you about ads, about environmental regulations, <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:07:18 So you can imagine me like 20 years old, like, I'm ready to da. You know? And a lot of them, um, didn't accept the money, and it was like a very, yeah. Anyway, um, but so, you know, very early on working in trekking, working in alcohol and tobacco and motor oil and all these very glamorous industries Yeah. Um, that were mostly dominated by men. I kind of found my sea legs pretty early. But I think a big piece of it for me was just, um, having this really naive assumption that I should be there. Um, and that's, that's kind of how I showed up. And like I said, you know, sometimes you get knocked down and, and that's part of the learning journey as well.
Speaker 1 00:07:53 Yeah. So I know it worked. I mean, so you obviously figured it out and, and I like, you know, sea legs is important, but where, when didn't it work that you were a girl?
Speaker 2 00:08:01 Yeah, good question. Um, so there was, uh, we pitched, when I was in, uh, working at ad agency, we went down to, uh, Tennessee to pitch a company. It was a family owned, uh, clothing company. Um, and it was me and a bunch of guys. And we went down, it was kind of a pre-pitch meeting. We were gonna try out the pitch on sort of the, like second in command to the head of the family. And so we go down and we're all dressed up, and we got our big pitch. And then the pitch went great. Um, and my colleague, who was the president of the company, stayed behind to get the feedback, and he comes back to the car. Um, and he, he shared with us that the feedback was, you all were really great. We love the pitch, we love the vibe. But, um, when you come back to meet Mr. So-and-so, you might wanna leave your little lady behind <laugh>. And I was so mad. I mean, I just was like, every feminist vote in my, I was seething. Wow. And then I remembered what another good friend had told me, which is, don't get in a fight with a pig in the mud, because the pig will just, wait,
Speaker 1 00:08:51 Hold on. Tell me that again.
Speaker 2 00:08:52 Don't get in a fight with a pig in the mud. Okay. Because a pig has fun and you just get dirty. Right? Yeah. <laugh>. Yeah. So, um, we flipped it. Everybody called me the Little Lady as a joke from then on <laugh>. And that became my, my moniker around the office. And, um, that company ended up going bankrupt. And, uh, so that was sort of my, you know, sweet return.
Speaker 1 00:09:10 That was your fun.
Speaker 2 00:09:11 Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:09:12 Yeah. So that's a really good attitude. And I, I kind of, I, I, in retrospect, I, I worked in all the boys clubs mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and I never really knew it. 'cause I just didn't feel, I mean, I, I so relate to that. I didn't know that it was a problem. I mean, I'm sure they thought it was a problem. I know it was a problem. But, you know, I think when you outwork 'em, you outperform 'em, you outproduce. Um, it's hard to say. Well, you know, that's our little lady. So, um, do you think that was really one of your secrets is that you just ground, you know, you, you did three people's job and instead of doing your job, is that, was that one of your hacks? I,
Speaker 2 00:09:50 I think it was until that didn't work. Right? Yeah. Like, I hit a, I, I remember the moment where, you know, part of my story is I just sort of grabbed every opportunity that came my way. Come hell or high water. Yeah. And, um, and until I burned out, right. I remember being up at two in the morning working on a deck and, you know, thinking like, I just, like, I can't do this and crumbling. Um, and that's when he started to learn how to ask for help. Right. <laugh>. Yeah. And another great mentor said to he, he looked at me and he said, look, um, when you say no to something, you're actually saying yes to something else. Yeah. And that for me, I, like, I had never thought about that way. I just thought, if I say no, I'll be letting this person down, or I'll be passing up this opportunity, or I thought about all the things that wouldn't happen, as opposed to by choosing to prioritize my time in this way, I'm actually, you know, supporting this piece of the business or this, you know, this priority.
Speaker 2 00:10:38 And so that, that reframe was so critical for me. 'cause it just helped me. Um, one, it helped my people pleaser, you know, <laugh>, general people pleaser, but also just helped me start to get ruthless about prioritization. Right. And that, that was the beginning of a journey in terms of like, not just taking whatever came my way because somebody else needed it done, but thinking about, okay, like, what's my agenda here? What am I trying to get out of this situation? Yeah. Really taking the wheel on my career way later than I probably should have. But, um, but that's a big piece of what we do with Beyond Barriers is help women not just get the navigational skills that they need to go further faster, but also locate themselves in the equation. Right? Yeah. What am I trying to accomplish? What are my goals? How do I bring those goals to the table? How do I ensure that I not only accomplish what I need to accomplish for the tasks of my job, but, um, get what I need out of this. Right. 'cause it, it takes you to tango. So,
Speaker 1 00:11:26 Yeah. I mean, we're taught that in, I mean, intentionality is selfish. Right? Um, you know, intentionality is, you know, well just let the guys get what they want and you'll, the rest will come. And, and, and your path is just so different than that. So now we, um, find you're in the, you know, beyond barriers where you're helping women, you said get there faster. Um, so what does that, what does that look like? If you had your dream and you build this company, how do you measure the success and the impact?
Speaker 2 00:11:55 Yeah. Yeah. So the way we're talking about it now is, uh, number of careers transformed. Um, so we're working, uh, we're actually working directly with companies. So it's a B two B sale. Um, and we partner with companies and we say, bring us your high potential talent, right? Uh, who are somehow stuck or who aren't, aren't navigating the, the organization the way that you think that they could. Um, there are a couple operating insights that, that got us here. One, we firmly believe, and we know that the world is more powerful when everyone's empowered. Right? Uh, we know that women are the largest group of under-leveraged employees in the world. Right. That data is very, very clear on that. And then for each of us as leaders, we had experience mentoring, um, and leading women for whom the challenge was not ability or aptitude or ambition.
Speaker 2 00:12:38 It was this idea of navigational skills. I don't know what I'm not doing. I'm not taking the time to invest in myself. Um, I'm, I'm, I'm prioritizing other things in my life 'cause that's where I am life stage wise, right? So, um, taking a moment to understand those navigational skills. And then, you know, you can imagine, and the data shows this too, that if, if less than 50% of your workforce is fully empowered, like you're leaving money on the table, right? Yeah. And actually, McKinsey just did this study that in companies where women lead the, um, share performance and profits are 50% greater, right? Yeah. So it's like, this is an obvious that you, we were just leaving this money on the table, right? It's an opportunity not only to empower and enable perspectives and people, but also really to, you know, fire up the engine in a, in a really different way. Oh.
Speaker 1 00:13:22 I think if you don't talk about that, you know, sometimes you can't get all the people's attention that you need. I mean, you need companies to buy in, so you have to talk about profit. Sadly. Instead of talking about, um, you know, 50% of their workforce and filling the gap, all the things that are so positive, you've gotta, you know, turn to r o I, now that said, did, did I hear this right? Um, three years outta college, an average woman is making 25% less for the same role as her male counterpart is. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:13:51 Yeah. It starts so early. And yeah, I think you and I talked about this. Like, I, um, I, I have negotiation conversations with our babysitters when they come over. 'cause it makes me so mad that women don't, we don't, we just don't learn how to do that. Right.
Speaker 1 00:14:01 Whatever you think.
Speaker 2 00:14:02 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever. Pay, whatever. And it's like, let,
Speaker 1 00:14:04 Let's assume, okay. You know, like there are some people that don't know, know how to negotiate. Maybe they didn't have a mentoring, but there's definitely some that know how, for sure. So are they getting left behind?
Speaker 2 00:14:16 You know? Um, I think it depends on the company. So I can share some, some experience from public company, but also comp committee conversations where I've, I've sat on boards and I think, um, you know, the, at one of my companies, we were really clear about every year going through with fine tooth comb just data, right? And making sure that there weren't the inequities that, that the data shows there, there ought to be, and, and correcting for those progressively over time. Um, and then similarly with comp committee conversations, I mean, I think what you start to see is one, women get left behind, but you also start to see the implicit biases in the comp conversations, right? Yeah. And one of the, the key things that I think women need to know is men are often valued based on their potential, and women are valued based on their performance.
Speaker 2 00:14:56 And we often look at ourselves that way too, right? So if you, you, the LinkedIn data shows that men will apply for a job if they have like six out of 10 of the qualifications. And men, women feel like they need 11 outta 10. You know? And so if we're valuing ourselves based on what we've done, then we're only gonna do more of what we've done or a little bit more. Yeah. If men are saying, absolutely, I could crush that, right? But then when you start to listen to the language around comp conversations, you also start to hear leaders talking about the people on their teams that way. Like he would, oh, he's got this. You would totally crush it. And then for the woman, like, I don't know, do you think she can do this? Has she done it before? And same thing applies with VCs, right?
Speaker 2 00:15:32 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we see this in the vc in so many VC conversations with women, you get asked about all the objections and all the, and how what if, but if, yeah. With that versus with men, they talk about the possibility and the opportunity. So I think one of the things we're really focused on is how do women in those conversations shift the conversations, pivot their perspective, and show up in a really different way. Because if A plus B equals C, if you change B, then C changes. Right? Right. And so, so that's a piece of the puzzle. The other piece of the puzzle that's in development is teaching leaders who aren't women, um, how to lead in a more inclusive way, right? How to listen in a different way. How to, uh, encounter their, their biases that, um, that may or may not be intentional or conscious, right? But just, just learned, right? Because this is, it's there, there are systemic problems. And, and we don't believe we're gonna break the system, but we do believe we're gonna, you know, by changing people will change, change the world. So,
Speaker 1 00:16:24 So you, you speak about vc mm-hmm. <affirmative>, is your company, uh, self financed or did you go out and raise money? So
Speaker 2 00:16:31 We have some pre-seed capital, uh, and we'll be raising next year. So we've got enough to get us the, the, I mean, the fun thing about this company is we're making money and we're making enough money to sustain ourselves. Oh, great. Um, it's really just about the vision that we have. You know, we want to build and we wanna start doing real customer acquisition. And as a former C M O, I know how expensive that is, <laugh>, so,
Speaker 1 00:16:49 No, absolutely. That's a multi, I just think that, you know, for what you do, what you stand for, it'll be interesting to know how that process will be for you. Um, knowing all the stats going into it. Um, you know, on the other hand, and, and I don't think I, I, you know, I wanna know your lens on this. Um, does your, does your name help you or hurt you in, in the business world?
Speaker 2 00:17:12 Yeah, I think, you know, it's interesting. I've, um, so on the one hand we have, you know, Laura and her family and, and the rickets part of my name. And then, and then we have my career, you know, and, and I think both of them, um, uh, converge in different ways. So, as an example, we're going to a conversation, I'm sitting on a panel panel for, uh, founders and funders. And I looked at Laura, I said, you should really come with me. 'cause we're both right? We're both founders, Anders
Speaker 1 00:17:35 And funders, right?
Speaker 2 00:17:36 And, and we show up at the table with really different conversation, really different perspectives. Yeah. And we bring, you know, to the table really different perspectives. But I think, um, as an example, one of the verticals we're beyond barriers has been really successful, is in the financial vertical. And, you know, Laura and her family have a lot of, uh, experience and connections in, in that vertical. So I think in that way, it's helped open doors. Um, you know, I, I haven't encountered a world where a name opens a door and does a deal. I think a name opens a door, right? And then it's, it's on you to screw it up or, you know, make it sing, right? So, um, so I think we, you know, we've had some advantages there. And also there's just the, you know, getting out there and hustling part of it, which, which
Speaker 1 00:18:14 I enjoy. Well, that, that you've got a lot of, uh, all, so let's go back. So today, you know, you're basically running an online company. Um, and, and I think that's obviously an awesome platform. How much of this, um, you know, when I, uh, grew up in my career, you know, uh, peer groups, Vistage, y p o, things like that, which are not, um, online, uh, tools, uh, were, the way that we got professional development in other networking groups, um, has the world of young people pivoted to, they really will take their, their sort of guidance and, and their growth and their trajectory online only. I,
Speaker 2 00:18:52 I, yeah, they will. And we're, we're seeing like some of our original cohorts, like go on vacation together, right? So they're finding ways to connect outside of the world. And, you know, I think, you know, women, women like to connect in general. And I think part of this will include some convening, you know, events where we, where we actually do bring people together, uh, you know, professional development's. It's like a $3 trillion industry. And most of that money gets wasted because one, it's, you know, the average amount of spent on employees, about 1300 bucks. It doesn't get spread like peanut butter, you know, the, the rock stars get most of the money. Um, and for us, we're really focused on mid-career, which is where you see the extreme dip in numbers. It's also the moment where women aren't really investing in themselves, right? So there's an opportunity to say, this is priced for scale, right? This is not y p o level or L g C level, you know, this is, this is a, a reasonably priced, approachable, um, opportunity to take a minute and, and really accelerate the success, you know, of the team, the company, and the individual.
Speaker 1 00:19:48 Uh, so just, just, uh, define mid-career, kind of gimme more of what that really looks like. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:19:53 So, um, we try not to talk about in terms of age. Yeah. Because life stage, you know, <laugh> changes. We, we all encounter life at different, we
Speaker 1 00:20:00 All live forever. So, and
Speaker 2 00:20:01 That too. Um, so I would say, uh, director level. Okay. You know, kind of senior manager, director level. Um, and that's really where we start to see, again, really after manager, you just start to see the numbers. Um, and part of it is, you know, women are taking not customer facing roles, which are less lucrative. There's, you know, there are tons of dynamics. There are also a lot of assumptions women make about, if I'm getting this flexibility, then I shouldn't have these expectations of the company. And then, and then companies make expectations about what women want and don't want. And most of those reasons are misplaced and wrong and just not that great, right? Yeah. And so I think if you can start to pick away at some of those and light up the potential, right? You start to just see more powerful results. That's what we've
Speaker 1 00:20:41 Seen. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think though though, but it does sort of parallel to what we were talking about, that it starts early in a career. You're also kind of attacking that at the earlier part of the career. So that, um, should these women become directors and have an aspiration to be c e o of a public company, they've got, uh, a trajectory and time to really build out that, uh, those skill sets that, you know, they may or may not have. I, um, I really resonate with the part about the professional development being at the sort of rockstar level, because when I was in our public company, after we'd sold our business, um, they spent a lot of money on very few of us mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and we did travel the world and get coached by wonderful people. And in fact, um, <laugh>, I thought it was funny, the coach actually was the one who told me, you know, I don't see you here.
Speaker 1 00:21:33 Wow. <laugh>, I see you starting a holding company. And I'd never even heard the word. And I thought, what is that? That's so great. And I went, and really, this is the germination and seed planning that is what I'm building today. Which I'm sure they didn't really sign up to spend a bunch of money to have themselves tell me I should leave the company. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But I, I don't know. Do you, I think it's that, that the philosophy is do you spread a little bit of love on a lot of people, or do you spend a lot of love on your high pros? And you're, I think, saying that your model is, we go and we really try to get into organizations and spread a lot of love across a lot of people.
Speaker 2 00:22:10 That's right. Is that right? That's right. Yeah. And look, I think the other piece is what's the company facing, right? Yeah. Some, some companies are facing, um, uh, governmental requirements to have more women at the top. Companies are facing moral challenges. Some companies are just facing, we're not getting what we need out of this talent pool. Some companies are facing retention issues, right? So whatever the, the issue that, or velocity or cross-functional connection, right? And the, the program that we run can help with all of those things if it's framed correctly, right? And so a big piece of what we do is get to know kind of what, what's the challenge that you're facing? And, and why are you interested in investing here? I would say the reason that this is, uh, such a seamless sale is because everybody recognizes that they're leaving opportunity on the table.
Speaker 2 00:22:51 Everybody recognizes that women, I mean, look, the pandemic rate women left at such a high rate and nobody's having a great time pulling that talent back in. Um, and we also all know that results get better when there are more perspectives around a problem, right? Like, all that data is really clear. And so I think we see companies and leaders, you know, really waking up. But, but the other thing that we really see is, you know, when we have a conversation with someone like you who's had the experience of climbing the ladder, the broken ladder, you know, herself. Yeah. Um, it's like, yep. When, where do I sign up? I'd love to, you know, I, I know the 10 women who I've mentored or who I, you know, who are in this organization who need this kind of spark. Um, and, and let's go. You know? So it becomes a,
Speaker 1 00:23:32 Yeah. I mean, I have, I'll tell you if I'm redundant, I'm sorry, but I have to tell this story mostly for our listeners because it was such a pivotal moment in my career. Um, you know, when we sold our company, we went into a public company, $13 billion global company. Great place. I mean, they did a lot of things really well. The second year I won top, you know, GM of the year out of, um, you know, 200 branches. And we go to the award ceremony and they give me a green jacket size 44 large, like a man's green jacket, which in golf, if you're a golfer mm-hmm. <affirmative> signifies something really great, but didn't mean anything to me. You know, I come from a clothing family, so I was like, where's the Prada green jacket? <laugh>? But that, that was bad. But it was just signaling that they'd never had a woman win.
Speaker 1 00:24:15 Okay. Um, and then I went in the bathroom and there's a woman crying telling me, oh my gosh, I've been here 20 years and I've never seen a woman on stage. And at that very moment they're telling me, you can be the c e o, you can be the c e o, you can be the c o. And I knew that moment. I'm not gonna change these old guys and dockers, and nor do I want to. Right. And I've gotta go back and be an entrepreneur, which is harder, less lucrative at the beginning, way more stressful, cortisol, I mean all the things. And yet it's the only thing that makes me happy. So you brushed right up against the top of that same exact journey. Do you really think they were gonna make you the c e o?
Speaker 2 00:24:58 Uh, I think it was on the list with a couple other people, right? Yeah. And you just never know. Yeah. But I'll also share, you know, every job that I left from the time I was 20 when I left my first job, I got the, they call it the keys to the kingdom talk, you know, where some usually old guy was like, this could all be yours. This, you can do that. You know, if you,
Speaker 1 00:25:13 What do you need?
Speaker 2 00:25:14 What do you, at a certain point, you know, and it's sort of like tempting and interesting, but, but also, you know, you just hit a point where you're like, this is my career. I gotta manage it. Yeah. You know, myself and, um, your story about the green jacket, um, you know, one of my co-founders had gotten a, an entrepreneur, an award for entrepreneurship for being a woman of color. And she showed up and, um, she was the only one there, right? And so she's like very honored and felt great about winning. And if it's a, like two horse race and kind of like, you know, and, and one of the, I think one of the things that compelled, one of my co-founders left a really huge career in corporate as well. We, the two of us talk a lot 'cause we have that experience. Um, but one of the things that compelled her was scale, right? Yeah. So, like even at Google and Goldman and Bank of America where she was influencing, you know, thousands and thousands of people, um, the opportunity to scale even bigger and to make a bigger impact, right? Uh, by starting this thing and, um, and make and
Speaker 1 00:26:09 Not in one location and lots of companies everywhere. So how do you split up the duties? Um, you've got three co-founders as I understand it, and you, Laura and your friend. Is that four? Yeah. Or four of you. Okay. So how do you split up the duties today?
Speaker 2 00:26:22 Yep. So, uh, Nikki is our, um, co-founder and c e o um, and she's, she's an entrepreneur. She's done zero to one a hundred times. And, um, so she's, she's doing the business development. She's doing the, um, a lot of the, um, kind of, uh, strategy along with she and I partner in strategy. Okay. Um, Laura is a board member and co-founder. So she really comes, she's kind of like our eagle eyes, right? Yeah. She comes in and helps create connections, but also helps with an outside perspective. 'cause we get, you know, we're, we're in the forest, it's sometimes hard to see the trees. Um, Monica's our chief learning officer, so she's the, the professor. She's developing the curriculum and she's done this, you know, a hundred times for a lot of different companies. And so she's really thinking about, um, the, the customer experience, the, you know, what's gonna really be a transformative experience for our participants, and then also deliver the results.
Speaker 2 00:27:09 Um, and then I'm president, so I'm, you know, leading the operations the day to day, but also marketing and product, which is, you know, where I come from. So, um, so, you know, Nikki's, I'm the opener. Nikki's the closer, you know, we have a really great handoff going there, um, from a, from a sales perspective. And then, uh, and then we just actually deepened our team with a, a chief technology officer who's gonna help us build out the platform, um, which will take it beyond kind of the bootcamp and into really, you know, the, the Thrive platform. So, sure.
Speaker 1 00:27:36 Wow. Congratulations. It's, um, I I feel like, you know, it'd be really helpful to just think about some words that we should use in our language around customers, prospects, suppliers that, um, maybe kind of endorse what you stand for. I would love to know kind of how to spread that message, uh, outside of the direct spread, which we'll certainly do, but tell us how do we really, um, 'cause I think sometimes when you hear, you know, you know, diversity inclusion and these very like, kind of PC words right now mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it tunes out a certain segment. Totally. So what are things that we can say to help have the conversation, which I, I just am so interested in learning.
Speaker 2 00:28:17 Yeah. I mean, I think, look, we, we really start from the performance angle, right? That it's, it's this, you're leaving 50%, like 50% more is right in front of you. Um, and intuitively it sort of stands to reason. Um, we're, we're pretty intentional about not being like diversity tech. 'cause I think you're right. It's not only is it tune some people out, but, um, it's just a smaller piece of the pie in terms of what, what companies are investing in, right? Yep. And as, especially as we head into whatever this next environment is gonna be, right? I think companies are gonna be looking for things that, uh, juice up their performance, you know, that deliver the results that help with the retention, you know, um, and engagement of employees. So I think, um, you know, when you think about making this investment, it's, uh, it is about the individual employee and it's about, you know, it's the rising tide raises all ships, right?
Speaker 2 00:29:02 Yeah. And so if you get, if you get, and, and we know this, you've watched, you've had superstars on your teams, right? Where you get someone and you just see the spark start to fly, and then they're just unstoppable, right? Yeah. And, and that's the idea is if you can nurture that earlier, not only do you create loyalty, you create connection, but they start to find more meaning in their work, right? Yeah. Because they're in the driver's seat. And when people find meaning in their work, they're so loyal, <laugh>, right? They wanna help and when and when they have skin in the game, especially, right? Yeah. Which is where this often ends up leading, um, that then they become your best performers and ultimately your future, your future leaders. So,
Speaker 1 00:29:35 So who does it best? Which company do you see out there that you say, wow, they are really crushing this?
Speaker 2 00:29:41 Yeah. You know, it's interesting really early on, you probably may, you might know Andrew Swin in, at, um, at Publicis. Leo Burnett, he's the, the CEO E and, um, he's an old friend. And, uh, we had a conversation about, you know, uh, doing some creative work. And he was like, and I was sort of sharing the general numbers, and then he shared their numbers and I was like, <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:29:58 Not surprising though, not surprising. It's, you know, they have a big, you know, PR marketing, so let's take somebody that's not in a traditionally female, you know, it was okay for girls to be in PR and marketing. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, let's, let's put them aside. Who else does it Well,
Speaker 2 00:30:14 Yeah. So a company we're working with right now is Aries, uh, global Management, which is a, a pri private equity firm. Okay. And they, um, kind of, they, they approached us, you know, we've got some, some connections. I've done some consulting with them and connections with a number of the founders. Um, and they started with a pilot, and then they have really scaled this across their network. Um, and, and part of it is because they, they have, you know, in finance you all, you see the same pattern, right? Yeah. There's a level that women get to and then they stop, right? Yeah. And so, um, they're using it not only to um, you know, empower and engage their female employees, but also connect them, right? It's a huge organization with employees all over the place. And so when they have this kind of fellowship experience, it creates this network of women, um, who are committed to helping each other thrive.
Speaker 2 00:30:58 Yeah. Right? Um, we're also working with a couple of, um, private equity companies where they're leveraging a cross portfolio. So while every company may not have 10 or 12 women, 'cause they're earlier stage companies, you've got two here, two here, two here, and two here. And then they start to have a common language and a common experience, and the dividends pay to the private equity firm, right? Because they're the ones sort of supporting this journey. Um, and of course, every private equity firm is looking at the talent, thinking about how can I leverage talent, you know, across the portfolio. And so, um, so it becomes a tool to, to supercharge the investment
Speaker 1 00:31:28 That's a success story. 'cause that's a, that's a traditionally and historically super male, um, because of the finance background. Um, and to have that kind of success story, I think that's, um, you know, those are the, you know, the money lenders that we all have to look to as the people to fund our businesses and our visions, um, because they get it mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and, you know, I mean, even if it's 'cause they figured out that, you know, women will make 'em more money, whatever. Um, it's true. Um, and I think that, um, it, it's just exciting to me to hear you talk about, um, those kind of companies because it's really important work that you know, is gonna live well. Well, uh, after you're not around. And I think what you and Laura are doing is just incredible. I, uh, hope we can spread the word on the Lady Boss Podcast because, uh, we all have to think about things differently. We shouldn't be having this conversation in 2022. We shouldn't have to be, you know, dealing with these statistics. But we do, you know, we talked about the fact that the queen just passed away last week and, and, you know, those are things we've gotta, we've gotta have the next queens coming up. And, uh, and really, if that's intentional work we have to do, so be it. And congrats to, you know, taking the entrepreneurial leap because it's not easy, but you are sure. Making it look easy.
Speaker 2 00:32:46 Thank you. Thank you. I really, I appreciate what you're doing with the podcast, and I really appreciate being here. And, um, it's a lot of fun. It's fun in different ways. It's hard in different ways, but, but creatively, it's, it's a really special journey.
Speaker 1 00:32:57 No one dies from hard work. That's right.
Speaker 2 00:32:59 That's right.
Speaker 1 00:33:05 Okay. We're at the part of the Lady Boss podcast where we ask five quick questions and we see if we can get some more insight into our guests. Brooke, what's the best business book you're reading right now?
Speaker 2 00:33:15 Ooh, right now? Um, well, I'll tell you the one that I go back to all the time, uh, which is, uh, women Don't Ask. Um, it's a negotiation book. Okay. And it was, somebody gave it to me a long time ago. I've gone, it's, my copy is like, you know, highlighted and dogeared and, um, it's just a really good grounding reminder. Um, so I, that's the one. And then, and then the one that I read most recently was Adam Grant's Give and Take. Okay. Um, which I love as well.
Speaker 1 00:33:38 Okay. Oh, good suggestions. Okay. What's the hardest thing for you to do at work? Hardest, uh, thing that really brings you to your knees?
Speaker 2 00:33:46 Um, I am a very accomplished and yet not very organized person. So often the details, uh, will bring me to my knees. But I think, um, you know, we were just talking about this as well. Um, early in my career, I got the feedback that people wanted more of me on, on my team. They wanted more of me to show up, and, and I took that as they wanted me to work harder, and I couldn't possibly imagine how I could work harder. Um, and then someone of a very nice friend translated for me. They said, no, Demi, you know, actually, they just, they want more of you at work, right? They want you to show, show and share yourself, right. And share your story. And, um, and so that's something that I, I'm really, I try to be really intentional about. Um, I've done a lot of writing on Medium, trying to, and every single time I push the button to send or publish, I get this sort of like, I don't know, do people care?
Speaker 2 00:34:27 Do people wanna hear from me? Um, but the interesting thing is, um, what I found is that the, the things that people are most engaged in are not the, you know, the sort of like how to the business technical stuff. It's really, it's the story, right? People engage with stories, people engage with people. And I think, um, that's one of the things we see in the journey with Beyond Barriers, is we at the end of the, the journey, we actually have people write their own story. And, um, I spent my career writing brand stories for some of the world's biggest brands. I had the hardest time writing my own story, so ironically marketing myself. And
Speaker 1 00:34:59 It's funny to hear because I feel like you're very, very vulnerable online, and I so appreciate that. I just never, I wi I'm with you. I just always feel like that's the part we're supposed to leave at home. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but you lead with, hi, I am Brooke and I'm married to a woman, and you keep going. And I'm like, let's go. And yet it's just not innately what in your career you think they want to hear. Right. And, um, it's really cool to hear that you've gotten feedback that that is what they wanna hear. Totally. Um, thanks for sharing that. Um, who's the top mentor in this last decade for you personally and professionally?
Speaker 2 00:35:35 Um, so I moved to Chicago to work for a woman named Ellen. And she recruited me. This is not, this is more than a decade ago, but, um, but she, uh, pulled me in when I was in my early twenties and then quickly trained me to take her job when she retired. Um, and I didn't really know what was going on until she told me she was retiring. And then I sort of went back and went, oh yeah, she was, you know, and, and she literally, at every turn, I quote her at least three times a week, <laugh>, which I have a list of Ellen sayings. Ellen is she le left me this beautiful post-it note, uh, when on her way out the door and it said, don't forget to eat, sleep, breathe and pee. Uh, because men will get up in the middle of a meeting and go to the bathroom and women will hold it, you know, <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:36:13 Yeah. It's a silly thing. But, um, but she just taught me so much, not only about being a great businesswoman, but also being a great human. And, and I look to her and, and think of her all the time. Lucky. Um, and then I'm gonna do too because, uh, my grandfather who, um, passed away about five years ago, who was just my hero in every way. And, um, he, he was amazing. At 88 I was, I was working at Twitter and I would come visit him and he would've read everything in the Wall Street Journal about Twitter and just been ready to have a conversation with me, um, but also just really wise and really caring and, um, somehow really with it, you know, into his nineties. So it's amazing. Nothing
Speaker 1 00:36:48 Better than grandparents. They're such game changers. Yeah. Um, okay. What would you consider your super power?
Speaker 2 00:36:55 Um, I call my, so we actually, part of the, the journey is we, we talk about our moniker, right? Yeah. And so what defines this? Um, I'm a power generator, right? Like, I take possibility, I turn it into performance, I take lots of creative ideas, I can filter through and, and really identify the thing that's gonna make whatever saying, right? So I, um, that's, that's my focus. That's how I've been successful, is, um, identifying power to, to create growth.
Speaker 1 00:37:18 You're like the person who invented that traction, that, that buzz traction, you know, <laugh> and, and, and it's so important. 'cause I think so many people are just the idea people, but those aren't the people getting paid. The executors are the people getting paid. That's right. Executions is everything. It's not as glamorous sounding, but it's, it's the glamor, <laugh>, <laugh>. All right. Awesome. And then maybe one hack that you could share with people about how you fit all of what you do into one day.
Speaker 2 00:37:43 Um, I think the hack is that, uh, is that you can't do it and have it all, all the time, but you can, you can be good at what you're doing in the moment, right? I think the hack is really mindfulness and intentionality and accepting that you're not gonna be great at everything. Um, I actually, I actually do think that's the hack. It's really hard for me because I wake up every day believing that I can accomplish everything on my list. And then I get very frustrated and <laugh> sad at the end of the day when I haven't. Um, but one, but I guess that the filter that I'd add to that was something my grandfather told me, which is something his father told him, which was, um, do the hardest thing on your list first. Yeah. And everything else will melt away. And it's really, really true. Even though, you know, I can stay busy all day checking things off my task list. And then I have this like, monster at the end of the day, this boulder that I have to tackle. If I do it in reverse somehow, like half the tasks disappear. No, because I either, they've been made relevant by the big thing that I've done, or everything got reprioritized 'cause I just took the time to go deep. So
Speaker 1 00:38:40 That's, oh, I hope people hear that. I am a firm believer in doing the A-list first. When your energy's best, when you really have clarity, you're not interrupted. And it all gets done. But it's hard to, there's no checklist with the A-list. 'cause it's the longer, harder, deeper project. So thanks for that reminder. That's a good one. Yeah.
