Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 Hi everyone. I'm Courtney Wright, lady Boss podcast here. Coming to you today is Kathleen Sarpy. You are gonna be really excited to hear what her story, she's c e o of agency, H five, a public relations firm specializing in restaurants and hospitality. I think you really like her story. Let's listen to Kathleen Sarpy. Okay. As I understand it, um, well, more than 20 years ago, you started your firm, uh, by a sump pump in your basement. Can you give us a little quick story on that, <laugh>?
Speaker 2 00:00:49 Yeah. Well, um, thanks again for having me. Uh, I'm really honored to share my story. Um, yeah, 21 years ago, uh, I was leaving a big agency job behind, um, because I really felt like I was at a crossroads of my career. I had a small baby, another baby on the way, and I was really, um, in conflict with my values and my job. So I decided to focus on what was most important to me, which was being a mother. But I had to obviously pay the bills with two small children. Um, and we started, uh, age five out of my basement. It was just me, a sump pump next to me, uh, an IKEA desk. A lot of tenacity will and, uh, a lot of prayer. And 21 years later, um, I'm really fortunate, I guess, to continue to be doing a job that I love with people. I love
Speaker 0 00:01:37 A lot of people think that, uh, starting a company is a, is a road to riches, so to speak. But, uh, both of us know that it's, uh, a lot of investment before there are any, uh, riches, so to speak. True. So how did you make that leap when in fact, you were vulnerable, you had two small children, lots of expenses, and you were young, you didn't have the knowledge you have today. What, what gave you that confidence?
Speaker 2 00:02:01 Um, honestly, it was really, I think, a, a leap of faith. There really wasn't a, a plan. There was no backup plan. There was no net. It was, I kind of worked best under those circumstances, you know me. So, you know, I'm kind of a, a risk, um, I guess, uh, not a, I don't have risk adversity, so I decided I could bet on myself, and if it didn't work out, I could always go back if I had to go to the big agencies again. But it ended up working out well. But, uh, you know, my advice to people that are thinking about starting their own businesses, do it. Try it. Um, because I was never intending on doing it in my, um, my career. I, I thought I'd be forever in a big agency or corporate setting. But again, my, my value system got really, I guess, rubbed the wrong way when I had a baby and I couldn't see her.
Speaker 2 00:02:47 And I decided if this is what senior leadership as a working mother is, like, I, I don't like myself. I don't like the, what, what I see in the mirror. So, um, I made that bat an investment on myself. And you're right, it was incredibly risky, but at the same time, i, it, it paid off. And it's an annuity. I'm grateful for now. 'cause it gave me flexibility. Yeah. Um, to have a lot more kids, um, as you know, but also to, you know, deal with aging parents and, and different things that happened in my life, you know, that, that I had to, you needed
Speaker 0 00:03:15 The time for, I
Speaker 2 00:03:15 Needed. Yeah. I didn't have to ask permission.
Speaker 0 00:03:17 You know, a lot of people, um, you know, personally, I grew up with entrepreneur parents. I married people that were entrepreneurs. So it wasn't that, um, it was what I saw, and I modeled that in some ways. But you grew up with parents, you know, a dad that worked at a big company. So to do this, you know, entrepreneurship thing was an even bigger leap. How long did it take until you really said, maybe I'm onto something and, and maybe this will stick? Well,
Speaker 2 00:03:41 I'll say first it took the first six months where I made five grand total <laugh>, which I realized was a problem. Um, it would not be sustainable for me to pay the mortgage and, uh, continue to, you know, put children through, uh, let alone diapers, uh, college. So, um, yeah, my, my dad worked in corporate America. My mom was a nurse, um, and worked, um, every other weekend. And I spent a lot of time with my father. Um, I didn't have role models that necessarily were entrepreneurs, but, uh, again, I keep going back to it was just something for me that would give me the freedom. I needed the freedom, and I knew that I had, I was young, and if I, I needed to go back to corporate America, I probably could. But at the same time, being an entrepreneur for me was, um, unintentionally it grew out of just clients. I, I guess I knew when clients like Craft and Allstate and Sears and other big brands that I worked with in the agency world trusted me with their brands as a small, you know, entrepreneur at the time. Yeah. And then I ended up, you know, ultimately having hundreds of those type of clients over the years, which I'm really grateful for. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:04:46 Yeah. I think that one you really unique thing that you do very, very well is, uh, you were able to take what you're talking about now, your values, you needed autonomy and you needed flexibility and turn those into a business. But, uh, you know, even after employee number one and two and three, you've had dozens and dozens of employee, and I really feel like your company could always recite your values very well. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, talk a little bit about how you make that, you know, those five core values so predominant in the culture of your company. 'cause I think it's really, uh, unique to many companies.
Speaker 2 00:05:18 Thanks. Yeah. I, again, my value system has always been ingrained in me. I ask, um, my kids and, and students I speak with at Purdue to think about what are the things you stand for? I don't think we do that enough in the world where, what do Kathleen, what do I stand for? And I was fortunate that by de facto starting my own company, I was able to create a value system that I could work within. Yeah. But then I also wanted to actually, rich Melman, one of my mentors told me, hire people that share the same values as you. They don't have to be cookie cutter versions of you, but if they have the same or similar values, you'll have a much stronger company. And that value, that, that value system driven business advice, I think was really smart. Um, so yeah. So I started to really decide if I was gonna work for myself.
Speaker 2 00:06:01 I was gonna work with nice people. So kindness. Um, I really didn't like working on businesses that didn't appeal to me when I was at a bigger firm. So work on things you're passionate about, passion, um, you know, don't just do things to do things. Have a creative, like, take on it or spin. So creativity was really important to me. Um, and then, you know, obviously integrity, um, is something that I think businesses often don't really support. Like, I think sometimes it's always profit profit's great. But, um, I wanted to be very transparent with my clients about results, uh, at what I was billing them, um, what I was doing for them, for the retainer they were paying me. I wanted the value system to be good. So I've done kindness, creativity, passion, oh, hustle. The last one I would say would be hustle. Um, you know, we, we need to not necessarily let grass grow. You're very similar. I think you wanna get things done and move on. And I am a person that hated the bureaucracy of a big company. Yeah. Yeah. And so hustle, just get it done and enjoy your life or make more money or get another client. So those are the five values that I subscribe to my whole life. And yeah. That's
Speaker 0 00:07:04 Great. They're really, uh, uber relevant in, in today's world, and I think business has changed so much since you've been in business. Mm-hmm. Um, how's the technology impact, you know, change of how that's such a prevalent part of our lives changed a PR firm? Hmm.
Speaker 2 00:07:18 Well, I would say social media changed everything. Yeah. 'cause when I started this company, a, a TV hit or a newspaper hit was really all that we were getting clients. And that was a big deal, right? Mm-hmm. Or a magazine story. And in the world of social media, technology has really changed the outcome of what our clients are looking for, um, and what they consider valuable and what they measure success based on. Sure. Sometimes a, you know, good social, uh, influencer, uh, hit could be way more valuable than a today show hit these days, which is very, very different than when I started my company for sure.
Speaker 0 00:07:53 And, and in naturally, um, as you know, your role has changed the career in your, uh, company 'cause of so many people, et cetera. And just our age, uh, we're not, we didn't grow up on social media. Yeah. So how, who's the hire that you need to make to be successful at a large firm today that really understands how to get that influencer and how to drive that value for these large clients that you work for?
Speaker 2 00:08:16 Well, that's a really good point about youth. I think one of the things that has helped me remain relevant and fresh in my own, I guess, journey as a business owner and as a PR person and a marketer, has been being around younger people. And that's another, I think, mentor piece of advice. Um, you're definitely one of my mentors and have given me so much advice over the years. Another mentor of mine is Carol Vernick, and she, um, led Alberto Culver for many, many years. And she told me, surround yourself with younger people, and that will keep you young too. And I think that's a really good piece of wisdom. So I have really like relished mentoring younger women mm-hmm. <affirmative> because they've taught me as much as I've been able to teach them, and has made, I think me stay younger and more interested in learning.
Speaker 2 00:09:02 I think just being around the, the youth of, of, uh, each generation, it's funny, when I started the company, I was, what, 28? And now that I'm in my fif I'm fifth, I'll be 51. It's interesting that like, I, I grew, I used to think I was their same age until so many years. 21 years have gone by and I still think, you know, that I'm running with the young dogs, but at the same time, I've aged. So they see me differently. Um, but I remain in my mind, I think young because of that exposure to probably 250 young women and a few very brave men over the years. Right.
Speaker 0 00:09:34 To grow your company, you need more people. How has that changed in this very tough hiring market that we're in?
Speaker 2 00:09:41 That's a good question. Um, you know, I'd say efficiencies actually are, are important. I, I used to wanna be a bigger company and I actually am pretty comfortable in the 24 person range right now. I, I like that size better than I've been 50, I've gone on my way to 60. But I think 20, 25 is actually a very efficient number. Um, you know, the profitability of a PR and marketing firm is both the clients, but also the type of scale of work we do. So if we have specialists in certain things like social media or hospitality clients, um, you know, the more clients you have in that same sector space, the more efficient you can be in, in doing their work. Um, so, you know, my, my firm's growth has been not necessarily always EBITDA driven, but has always been, um, efficiency driven in a way. 'cause I don't think bigger's always better. Yeah. I think having maybe better clients is more efficient, or having clients that understand the value of what we produce and actually increase their budgets because of the, the great work that's the best validation, right. Or the referral of one brand to another brand in a bigger company. That's what I focus on.
Speaker 0 00:10:48 Yeah. No, I think you bring up a great point. I don't think enough people know who is a great client mm-hmm. <affirmative> and, and every company has their own measure of what makes a great client. But have you ever had to fire a client because they just didn't fit,
Speaker 2 00:11:00 Uh, many times actually. And that was a, I think the privilege and the risk and privilege of owning your own company, right? Yeah. Um, I've had to fire some, I actually fired a $1.3 million client probably 15 years ago. So it was a very bold move to do that. Um, but they weren't fitting the value system. I was going home every night sad, you know, by that point I wasn't working in my basement anymore, but I was feeling like disappointed that I was taking money, and I was sort of in some way minimizing the value system I had set up, which is work with nice people. And they weren't treating not only me kindly, but my team. Yeah. That bothered me. Yeah. And so I always do believe when you do the right thing, the right thing happens back maybe not right away. Yeah. But if you look back in retrospect, it, it does. And, uh, I had to say, you know, we worked together six, seven years. I really appreciate the opportunity to have worked with you, but it doesn't align anymore with my firm's values. And it was a different leader that had come on, on board, actually that wasn't treating us kindly. And, um, within a month I got another million dollar piece of business that lasted many, many years. And so I think when you do do the right thing, you should never regret that. Even if right at the moment, it's maybe not the best outcome.
Speaker 0 00:12:07 Yeah. The journey of an entrepreneur is, uh, not for the faint of heart. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of ups and downs, um, and, and turns and you've always gotta show up and be positive for your team. But it is pretty gut wrenching a lot of the times. You know, one thing you did that, um, I think a lot of people don't think through the name of their company when they start a company, uh, because maybe it's too narrow, it doesn't tell what they do. And, and then often they'd like to rebrand, but they don't know how to do it. Right. And you successfully rebranded a 20, oh, you know, 18 year old company, uh, from what you were to agency age five. I'd like to just, um, hear what did you have to think about in order to do a successful rebrand?
Speaker 2 00:12:44 Well, I mean, everyone knew my company is Henson Consulting. When I started it. And the reason I named it Henson Consulting was at the time my last name was Henson, which is the name of my children. But also I was consulting outta my basement <laugh>. It was not a really strategic decision, what I named the company. Um, but as I changed, you know, my life and my, my name and my story, um, I felt like when we went through a rebrand, it was important to really articulate why I was in business in the first place. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I wanted to still have a continuity of the Henson. So the H stayed, but actually what I realized is, aside from the h it stood for Happy and Human, which is the reason I created the company was I wanted to be happy and I wanted to be able to feel human.
Speaker 2 00:13:24 And I wanted that same joy and privilege for my employees. Um, and then the five really was a nod to those five core values we talked about, but also a nod to those five amazing children I was able to give birth to because I didn't sacrifice my soul for my job. And so that's the nod back to the storytelling. And I do think good brands have a story behind them. There's always a, there's a reason behind it if, if it's a good brand. Um, and in most cases there's, you know, either you're gonna build a brand through awareness, you know, and advertising or marketing like what my firm does, or it's gonna be through memory. And I think people remembered agency H five and people call us H five now. Um, but they love, I think my clients love hearing that the five stands for those five kids and the values, and it's, it's memorable to them. And it, it's, that's, I'm, I'm, I'm satisfied with the name change. 'cause it was for a while worrisome to me that people maybe for would forget who we were or wouldn't remember us, and they did. So that's, that was good. Well,
Speaker 0 00:14:23 Well done. I mean, I think so much thought goes into it, and I can, you know, you're such a storyteller. All of the thinking and planning that you do, it may not always be apparent on the outside to people what goes into something like that. But congrats on taking the time to think through that. You know, um, this podcast is really designed to talk to people that are natural growers and multipliers. And, um, aside from the fact that, you know, you have birthed five children and have a stepson, uh, you just are that person that's always telling stories and always seemed to be helping others and spread their story. Um, can you maybe talk about somebody in your life that was a mentor, uh, and how they helped you get on your own a growing and multiplying journey? Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:15:03 Um, back when I was at Purdue, um, I didn't know what I was gonna do for a living, even as a junior. And I saw a woman speak, actually, so confidently and articulately, like share her story around being in pr. And I had never even heard what public relations was. Her name was Wendy Levi Leinart at the time, Wendy Levi. And she spoke in my class and I was assigned to her to take her on campus. And, um, she really invested in me that day. But beyond that, she invested in me well after. Um, and not a lot of people do that, especially women. I think back, back then, in the late, I guess late eighties, early nineties, you know, I didn't have exposure other than to my mother or my aunt or grandmother, you know, women at all in a leadership way that, um, until I went to college.
Speaker 2 00:15:48 And, and, and so to get a woman's, um, time invested in me as a young woman and want me to be successful was a huge honor. And, and I took her up on her offer to like, stay in touch. And she actually really continued to honor that like, uh, offer. So every time I'd ask her about what to wear, what to say, or how to interview, or how to write a, a cover letter for a job, she was there to help me. And, and that was really ultimately what got me into public relations, was looking at Wendy and seeing how confident and, and excited she was every day about her job. And I ended up working for the firm that she worked at, um, right outta school, which was, um, after a lot of bothering their general manager and figuring out ways to reach him before email was even not even existing then.
Speaker 2 00:16:35 So I was FedExing letters that he'd open or calling before 9:00 AM when his assistant wasn't answering phones so that he would actually answer, uh, the line. And then that's, I'd say, I'll work for free if you give me a shot, put me in coach, you know, and, and much to his credit, he let me, let me do that. So, um, I honor Wendy all the time. She passed away, um, almost two years ago. Um, but I'm still really close with her children, and I feel like that's her legacy living on, I watch all three of those kids succeed.
Speaker 0 00:17:03 That's amazing. You're lucky. Um, I, I know you've been a mentor to so many people, and I see you even every day at your firm just, uh, kind of being on the court with, with the, uh, the women, uh, and I I say mostly as women. Um, you know, as you look forward, what does success look like in the next couple years for agency H five? Hmm.
Speaker 2 00:17:22 Well, I think the pandemic definitely, uh, impacted business just from a standpoint of where we work, how we work, sometimes asynchronously working now. And I, I, I like seeing that flexibility kind of manifest through a really difficult time. Yeah. I think in the past there would've been no way. We would've all been working from home for two years. And, and yet it's sort of reinforced how much we can do anywhere. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, as far as what success looks like for H five, I'd say continued growth with good clients and, and sectors that we like to work in. We work with candy companies and big c p g brands. And so, you know, I'd like to see more of, of that type of work, um, because that's where I started my career, um, in, in food and beverage pr, um, 30 years ago. Um, which is crazy to believe when I started, um, right outta school.
Speaker 2 00:18:10 But, uh, that's success. And then I would say the ability for me to learn more, I, I really like learning. I'm recognizing that at my age now, I'm actually, I do have wisdom to share and I've been always sharing it, whether people <laugh> probably wanted to hear it or not. I just think sharing from a woman's perspective to another woman gives, I guess less fear that to go through the journey. I think, you know, life's kind of messy and when you share your story with other women, they feel less afraid when they have to go through their own. But, um, I hope to be able to do other things like I am enjoying putting my hands on other businesses where I can make an impact, um, and see change and learn something new, refresh my own skills a bit.
Speaker 0 00:18:50 Yeah. I think that I did wanna, uh, mention that, you know, a lot of people through the pandemic worked remotely. They picked up side hustles. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they did their own thing. And you, um, almost took a, you know, a secondary c e o role mm-hmm. In, in many times. And how do you juggle, um, you know, what's, what to do and how to do it with all the things that are on your plate.
Speaker 2 00:19:13 I think it's interesting how we put a lot of pressure on ourselves to get our to-do list done. And it, you know, I have a to-do list. It's perpetually, you know, in play as probably I know you do too. And we check our things off the list. Um, I have enjoyed that stretch a bit of actually not having it be so easy. I think that I don't really like, enjoy complacency, even though right now I probably should enjoy it a bit. But I have three kids in college, so we, um, you know, I'm still grinding. 'cause when you have six children to put through school, you still have to work pretty hard. But, um, I've enjoyed my brain being stretched and also new experiences. And um, you know, I guess I'm learning maybe I'm a serial entrepreneur. I like building business. I like, uh, the connections that businesses offer you through meeting interesting new people and maybe even getting exposure in new spaces you wouldn't normally, you know, be in.
Speaker 2 00:20:05 And for me, that has been rewarding and also exciting because, you know, when you invest in other companies, if they hit, that could be a wonderful annuity as well. Um, I, I, I'm not ready to be done working in any capacity, nor can I right now. But at the same time, I enjoy, um, I enjoy getting my hand. It's dirty. I don't like being in a, in an office. I like shoulder to shoulder work, like you said, getting in the trenches. That's just the way I lead is I don't like to, I have anyone feel intimidated by the fact that I'm older or have more experience. I'm excited actually to learn and be next to someone who's maybe, um, learning for the first time and then recognizing I'm good at teaching something new, or them teaching me something like, again, social media. Yeah. Who would've thought I was gonna be active working, um, with clients in TikTok, for instance. Like, that's something that, that youth has taught me and has been a part of the growth of my business a bit is just different social channels and different types of brands. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:21:03 Yeah. I I think that, um, you're so impressive because some of the things you get involved in, um, you know, on paper you, you are really a newbie, you know, these new companies that you've been starting and working on. And I think that's really the, the trajectory that keeps you growing and changing and evolving that leads to more opportunities. Right. And I also believe, do you, is it real to say that, you know, especially women as we age, you could be in the category of not getting as many opportunities, and yet you're this person that seems to be kind of picking up opportunities year after year. How do you kind of combat that? You know, look, I'm running a company, um, and, and I'm head down and growing that, but I'm, I'm open for, I'm open for stuff. And it seems like you've really got that out there. How do you do that?
Speaker 2 00:21:50 You know, I think sometimes it's just asking for it. Yeah. It's the, whether it's the universe or God or the list you write down or the future dream you have for yourself. I've done a lot of those things. I've written down the list of things I wanna do or bucket list type of, um, experiences or, um, just through sheer will in some way. But I also ask for a business. I actually meet people and say, I'd love to support your business. I'd love to add value to your life in some way because you've added value to mine. I've always been very much a believer in not being transactional. I mean, I think there's reasons for transactional business. You provide a service or a product and I'm buying it. But I do feel like transformational relationships in business is something are that is often, uh, underestimated and transformational relationships are the ones that actually have manifested the most opportunity.
Speaker 2 00:22:40 And, um, joy for me, truly, and, and so like, the best I think, um, gift people have given me is just the trust in giving me another shot or, or giving my name to someone. That's a huge privilege. I never, ever take that for granted when someone says like, use agency H five or call Kathleen. She'll take good care of your, your your project. Yeah. And that is something a lot of people, I think, whiff on. Sometimes they get referred something and they don't follow up or they don't care or they maybe don't give their best 'cause they're overextended. I I will, if, if you referred me something or anybody that was in my network did, I would want to make sure our team did such an excellent job. Not just because we care about doing excellent work, but because that personal referral is so valuable. Um, absolutely. And I don't believe that people maybe necessarily value that transformational relationships as much as they should right now in this world. A lot of choices out there. Right? Yeah. There's a lot of branding firms, a lot of marketing firms. So why did my little firm get to grow? I, I'm, I'm confident that it's because of the great values of the teammates that I've worked with. And I have a pretty amazing alumni, um, group that, that exists out there in the world because of having a small, you know, time with me. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:23:50 And maybe just, um, talk to the listeners about how you have rounded out your team. Um, I hear, uh, from what you say that you're really the rainmaker and the person that goes out and gets those, establishes those relationships and make sure as they stay there, what are the kind of parts of the team that you really had to fill in to make the, the puzzle work?
Speaker 2 00:24:09 I think the hardest roles right now, just in PR in general, are these, you know, sort of 25 to 30 year old. They've, they've gotten their first shot and then maybe they see that they wanna see something else, or the grass might be greener or they might get a call from a recruiter. And, you know, I always marvel when people don't recognize the opportunity they're given in a way to get a lot of leadership. One of the things I like to do at, um, H five is give young people opportunity to do whatever the heck they are capable of doing. I was a young leader myself and sometimes you're only limited by the job you're at at a firm and they, you know, you have to be at a certain point for a certain amount of years before you get to go to the next level.
Speaker 2 00:24:48 And I've never believed that. I, in fact, for a long time, resisted titles. 'cause I didn't like titles. I thought it limited you. And then kids are always wanting the next title. Right. And instead, I, I'm a big believer is like, act like you can, that's a motto of mine. And so I've given young people a lot of opportunity to become managers or have client exposure that they would not at another firm, but sometimes, uh, there's a temptation to see what's on the other side. And what I've heard, which is a bit gratifying as well, they've appreciated going to other places maybe to get that experience. It isn't, maybe they didn't necessarily have a Sure, a similar of experience of some firm that is value driven as H five is. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:25:27 Well, uh, sharing your story is really lucky for, for me and, and all our listeners because I think that, um, the intentionality that you go about your business is, is really to be commended. And also that you've just kind of chipped away and chipped away. And in essence, I think this is your golf. I think this, uh, you know, why you do it, you know, day and night is you enjoy it and it's fun to watch. I know that we all have our eyes on what's next for agency H five and we expect big things. Thanks for being with us. Thank
Speaker 2 00:25:55 You so much. I'm so glad.
