Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:01 Lauren Schiff Decker joining us today, c e o and founder of Inspire Counseling Centers. She's turning therapy on its head. Wait till you hear what she has to say, Lauren. So happy to see you again. Thanks for being here on the Lady Bus podcast. Awesome. Thank
Speaker 2 00:00:35 You so much for having me. It's so fun.
Speaker 1 00:00:37 Well, your story is something we have to make sure people know about Inspire counseling centers. As I understand it, uh, like many entrepreneurs started as you with a shingle. Yep. <laugh>. Um, and today you have multiple centers and growing, and I think it's a really great lesson for people to hear. I'd love just to tell how you went from solopreneur to taking that leap to having employees and doing the work, um, on a more company-wide basis. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:01:05 Well, it's sort of an interesting story, and I say it's often like Harry Potter. Like I started off in a small little broom closet. Um, before I started counseling though, in my little broom closet, I worked in the world of pr. And so I learned a lot about business. Um, and ironically not as much about marketing as, as much I would say is about business, about managing a team and working together and having deadlines and deliverables and weekly meetings. And I really loved that, but then felt the calling to go back to counseling. So once I was able to kind of start counseling on my own, I literally asked, um, my dad actually who had his own practice, I found this little closet. He had brooms and like printing machines and books. And I said, I'm gonna clear this out and can I just rent this? I can make you money. Let me rent this little space. So it truly was a closet. I rented some old furniture and started just on my own that day. And um, people would say, what's your ideal client like? And I used to say, anyone who can fit through that door right there. So <laugh>, it was just kind of open to anything and everything, but just eager and wanting to help and, you know, do something with my like skillset. So,
Speaker 1 00:02:17 Yeah. I love the story where you told me, um, how once you got your first employee you had team meetings, which <laugh> I thought was absolutely fantastic. Yes. Um, and probably the reason, you know, I always heard we ran, we've run all our businesses like their Fortune 500. Yes. None of them have been. Yes. But if you really kind of think with the end in mind Yeah. Um, you build a better business. Yeah. Which so many people are good solopreneurs for a reason. Yeah. Because they're not very good business people. Yeah. So maybe tell us, you know, um, after, you know, starting to get more employees, um, what is the hardest part about scaling up this business? And then we'll talk about the actual model, but, you know, what's the hardest part about it? Well,
Speaker 2 00:03:00 I would say kind of two things. One is just the imposter syndrome, right? Where you like, who am I to be running this business? I have employees who are older than me who have far more experience in the clinical world. And then I also just, you know, kind of feel like, oh, I'm just silly old me. Um, so kind of overcoming that day in and day out. Like, hey, I may be silly, but I can do this. Um, and then I think the second part is keeping the culture, um, and working with employees that balance between making them happy and wanting to do their best job, but then also making sure that I'm happy and that they're doing their best for the business. And I think those two things can kind of, I would say the hardest parts of growing bigger. Um, and managing lots of different people, different personalities and where they came from. Did they have experiences with authority figures that were negative? Did they have bosses that were toxic? Did they have? And then sometimes they bring that thinking that will be the case with you. Um, sometimes they have wonderful experience and then thrive. So you would come with people. They're humans. So they come with all sorts of different experiences and, uh, anticipations and they bring different challenges, uh, to the workplace.
Speaker 1 00:04:05 And maybe another complexity and layer in your particular model is that you're a counseling center. Yeah. Yes. Counseling young adults and adults Yes. With their problems. Yes. Does that, does those situations, those clients, does any of that absorb onto the therapist, your employees? Yeah. And somehow all of a sudden, you know, you've got a different challenge, which is culture and you know, sorrow and Absolutely. And depression and whatever the things are that they may have been absorbing Absolutely. As the counselor. Absolutely. Yep. How do you deal with that?
Speaker 2 00:04:35 Well, it's one of the main things about the counseling world that a lot of people I don't necessarily think of is the burnout. Because the better the counselor, the more you absorb people's feelings and it becomes difficult to kind of hold that boundary. So the burnout rate can be really tough. Um, and I think that one of the things that we, I have found, um, that really helps us as a community coming together. And that's one of the reasons I'm very big on team meetings and coming together, especially in our industry where as a therapist, you go into a room, you close the door, you're one-on-one with a person, but it's not the same way it is when you're with a friend or with a colleague. Or in my experience with working with teams in the corporate world, when you're with a client, you're not really, you're a tool.
Speaker 2 00:05:19 You're a vessel. You are there with them, but you're really focusing on them. So sometimes it sounds weird, but you can feel lonely because they're not getting to know you. So, and when you carry people's pain and you hear their stories and you hear things that maybe they've never shared with another human on the planet, and you know, it's something that you're trusting, it can weigh on you. It's hard to just go home, drive home and not think about it. I've been plenty of times myself on a walk and just crying, thinking about my own clients. And, um, so I think it is one of those balances of finding, making sure, but this applies to every single human that's working because whether you're listening to someone's story or you're living it, or you have a family friend or a family member who's carrying and sharing their sorrows with you, this is something we all experience as humans. Um, and it's difficult not to bring it into the workplace without having rejuvenation and all of
Speaker 1 00:06:09 That. Yeah. I would imagine. Yeah. And so unlike, you know, if you're a, a lawyer Yeah. As an example, yet a law firm Yeah. And you know, you're a lawyer and you start hiring lawyers and you tell 'em book as many hours and charge double that. Yeah. Yep. How does it work in your model where you probably can't book up all the hours in the day because of this topic we're talking about? Yeah. Yeah. What's a ratio of like, how many hours can you sit with a patient per week before your head implodes? Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:06:36 Great question. And it's a lot less than you'd think. Yeah. So most people work 40 hours, or I'm sure most of us would be admit that we're 60 plus. But like, when you're doing counseling, one of the, there's kind of like an industry ratios about 20 to 25 or 30 clinical hours a week. Um, and part of that is because outside of the clinical you have to take notes and do sort of things, follow up calls. But, um, it can vary from person to person. So one of the things that I think I'm really proud of that we've done is tailor it to each therapist. So some of my therapists, depending on other cases, if they're dealing with a lot of trauma, they, some of them only can see 10 or 15 a week and do their best job. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, some, I have some client therapists who can work more than 30 hours a week.
Speaker 2 00:07:17 They've got certain things, they've got a level of experience that they, and a lifestyle that that just works for them. So what we do is we kind of tailor it to each therapist, um, and then we module the business to allow them for certain times we call 'em shifts times of office space because we have to make sure the office space is utilized in making money. But we also don't wanna just fry the therapist. So we've changed the model from like, okay, each therapist needs to see 25 clients to each therapist. You tell me what you think is gonna be the number that you can make your best, you know, work possible, and also what you need for your personal finances and your personal life. And then we work with that and work the business around the therapist. Mm. So we might have two or three therapists sharing an office in a week, or we have one person sharing an, or one person has an office themselves. So we kind of like work it so they don't get burnt out. But I really trust them to know that more so than me is. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:08:11 Yeah. It was a funny, I had never thought when, I mean, because we have such a discussion about business and yet, um, the work you're delivering Yeah. Very much like any other doctor is, um, you know, very clinical in nature. Yeah. Yeah. So when you said you don't really have a way to audit Yeah. The work Yes. That your employees are doing. Yes. You know, in every company, my company, we have QC department and sign offs. Yeah. You can't go into the, the, you know, and here what's happening. So how do you get your, you know, is it churn? Is it repeatability? Like what measurement do you have to know that X, Y, z um, person's working well for your company? Yep.
Speaker 2 00:08:51 Yep. Totally. And that is such a brilliant question because it is a really challenging task in this force. So there's ways that we can kind of monitor and audit different kinds of, um, like clinical notes that they might take. But that's something secondary. You know, anyone can write something, um, after they do deliver this service, but we can't observe the service. And so there's a couple of different ways that we've done it. One is, um, sending out like anonymous surveys to clients mm-hmm. <affirmative> and allowing them to give us feedback that is got pros and cons. It's not a surefire way. We find that, you know, I'm sure you do too, with surveys, people only respond if they're very, very happy or very not happy. Yeah. So it's hard to get kind of the real feel of like what that is. Um, we do have some standards of like what we consider good retention rates.
Speaker 2 00:09:37 So we'll, we'll look at, um, how many clients, uh, does a client a therapist retain after we give them? How many numbers of sessions do we consider that? So we typically will say, you know, again, this is a boxed answer. It does vary from person to person and from experience to experience. But like about eight sessions per therapist, um, or per client for each therapist that we consider that a good retention. Like, okay, we kept them when we start seeing clients leave after the first or second session. That's not good for the business. It's not good for the therapist, but it means it wasn't a good fit or it's not the right time for the therapist or for the client, or there's just not the right connection. So we will allow for some of it. 'cause sometimes you come in and like, I'm sure we all have done it, like, you do something and you're like, ah, I'm not ready for this, or This isn't quite what I want.
Speaker 2 00:10:22 And it's nothing to do with the provider. Yeah. But it's just, you're not ready. So there is that element of it, which makes it tricky. But then when you look for patterns, when you see, hey, listen, 50% of your clients aren't sticking past one or two sessions, you know, and we can do things where we have a courtesy call by our like, um, intake team. They can call, but oftentimes people are very polite. They don't wanna say something rude. Or if they do, it's like, it's hard to tell. Yeah. So, um, we look at kind of broad strokes of like the time that people spend. Um, it's much easier to see excellent work. Um, because when someone's doing excellent work, one, they stay with the company for a lot longer. They're excited, they're happy, they like their clients, the clients like them. Two clients will often, um, you know, shout their praises. They will tell me they'll take the time to email or say something, they'll stay with a therapist for a while developing a relationship. So the excellent work's very easy to see when you're looking at kind of like when they just start or they're kind of in the middle, it's a lot harder to determine like if that's a quality connection. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:11:27 And I, I think that with your model in particular, there's retention. Yeah. And then I've always heard that, well, if the therapist keeps you forever Right, then you're a bad therapist. Yes. So that's a whole nother, it's a balance layer of business that you have to contemplate. So would it be considered bad business on your therapist part if they kept a patient for three years?
Speaker 2 00:11:46 Depends. I mean, typically that's not what happens. But some people they find that that is the relationship that they really value. It's something that keeps them steady. Some people when they come in, they haven't had a parental role in their life, even as adults that has been steady and consistent. So sometimes that can be a therapeutic effect. But you don't, I say it's one of the weirdest things. 'cause if we do ourself right, and we do our job right, we put ourselves out of a job. Exactly. So we really want people to go out and flourish and thrive in their life. And I always say, like, I look and I tell, train our therapist this way, like I say, we're like a nest. And our clients are like birds. We want them to come and rest their feathers and reju rejuvenate, get a little worm or bird or eat, eat something and then fly out and give their life.
Speaker 2 00:12:28 But then, you know, that nest is there so that if something happens down the road, you have a safe nest to fly. The wind gets, you know, blowing the rain's hard. Yeah. You've got a safe place to go. And maybe that's just one or two sessions. So that's another way that we see with excellent work is that we become a safe spot for people to come, just dip back in and check in when they need to. And then they go back out and spread their wings and fly and live their life. So we don't want people to feel claustrophobic, like, oh no, I have to come. Yeah. We don't want them to stay too long, but we want them to feel safe to come and rest and rejuvenate whenever they need it. So it's really kind of like a balance. But it is, it's such a tricky business. 'cause if we do it right, we have a lot of turnover.
Speaker 1 00:13:07 Right. That that's actually means you're doing your job. Yeah. So Inspire has grown. Yeah. Um, and you've got multiple centers. Yeah. What would it look like if you continue on this path or you are as excited about it? Yeah. And you continue to find all the help you want. Yeah. You know, five years from now. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:13:22 I would say if I have all the things come together the way I plan or hope to, we'd have between 25 and 50 centers. Um, I would like them to be in the Chicago land area, but even yesterday I drove down two and a half hours to check out a site, um, at a college campus. So I'm already kind of thinking about going across state lines and probably further away because there are a lot of areas that just don't have great counseling centers available. Or like in college towns, they have very limited sessions with and they don't get to choose. So I would love to take this level of excellence and bring it around to people making it convenient and affordable and beautiful. I like the space to be beautiful and the therapist to be excellent. So I definitely am not done yet. I think if anything, I'm just getting started. If, if I have my way, you know, life can do many crazy things, but that's kinda my dream is to be able to do, grow and bring this other places.
Speaker 1 00:14:17 Well, I mean, I think you'll never run outta customers <laugh>. So I mean, if you had to like Yeah. Put a bucket around Yeah. What the, you know, young adults of our society are dealing with. Uh, I mean, I'm gonna guess this word anxieties at the top of the list. Yeah, yeah. Um, which I didn't even know was a word. Yeah. When we were growing up. Um, you know, I'm
Speaker 2 00:14:36 A lot
Speaker 1 00:14:36 Older than you, but we, we didn't talk about being anxious. Yeah, yeah. As I understand it, that is the fear of the future. Yeah. Yeah. Um, what do you think people are, why are people struggling so much? Like, just say, let's, we can't talk about the pandemic if we didn't have the pandemic.
Speaker 2 00:14:50 Yeah. Still people seem to be struggling. Absolutely. What do you think is at the root of that? I think that a lot of it does breed from connection. And one of the really interesting things that the, some of the researchers are saying that anxiety and depression are sort of one and the same. So we used to see them as two separate things. And the forefront thinkers are saying that they're actually the same. And if you kind of think about it, it makes sense because when you're anxious and you're depressed, they're kind of a very similar feeling. Um, and so I think though what it really comes from is, and I do, you know, everyone likes to blame social media. I can't say we can blame that all together, but I do think it is, it's really taken away from our connection. So like, when you see, you know, I'm sure you have seen like, you see a bunch of kids sitting together at the park and they're all like this, you know, they're not connecting face to face.
Speaker 2 00:15:37 And I think one of the other things that has come from social media, but it happens in real life too, is you know, really this unauthentic version of yourself where you are presenting your best self. You're the self with your filter on you're, you know, you edit out anything that doesn't look good. And I think we start to do that. And I think some of this younger generation, they're lacking a lot of that. Like even just a phone call, like they're on FaceTime and they like have the ceiling fan showing they're not looking at each other, they're not listening as much. They're kind of just kind of a surface level connection. And as humans, since the beginning of time, we're rooted in connected, being connected to other people and feeling love, feeling acceptance. But you can only feel that if you really are truly yourself.
Speaker 2 00:16:18 If you love me for the best version of myself, well that doesn't mean much to me. If you see me and you know who I really am and some of the things I struggle with and some of my imperfections, then that's a much more meaningful experience. And I think a lot of these younger kids and, and, and even younger adults and adults are lacking that feeling of authenticity because we're all like, just groomed to put forth our best self. And when we look at like, uh, social media for example, or you, you're talking to a friend who's only sharing their best parts of themselves, their best, you know, day and all this stuff we're used comparing though what we know about ourselves. So we know our deepest, darkest secrets. We know what we're ashamed of and what we're embarrassed of or what we feel like are our flaws.
Speaker 2 00:16:58 And then we compare it to a airbrushed perfect picture. A fun time. Like, oh, you're in Bali. I'm sitting in my living room and no one's called me today. You know, oh, you're with all these friends. Well, I am feeling like nobody likes me. And, but they don't realize is that that person in Bali or that person that looks like they're in the center of a very fun party is feeling similar things to that to you. They're just not showing them. Yeah. And I think that is really where a lot of the space. So then what we do, what do we do? We try to like do whatever we can to keep up. Right. So we've got kids running. They were trying to be the best athletes, the best students, the best friend, the best kid. They're trying to be the most attractive, pretty thinnest. Yeah. And you can't best at music, all of it. You're supposed to be the best at many, many things, not just one anymore. Yeah. Right. And it just has this running ragged. Yeah. I,
Speaker 1 00:17:48 I I think it's a really, um, profound observation and really scary. And I think somebody so young and vibrant like you, I hope that inspire can grow. Yeah. And just try to get our hands around what is so important If you're 20 and struggling. Yeah. You know, or, and you're, you don't really kind of get, you know, you're that nest. Yeah. So I thought that was a great metaphor. You know, get yourself together. Yeah. So you can go out and fly. Yeah. You can lose a lot of important years of your life. Absolutely. So I think the work's so important. I'm just so curious though. You know, you have like zero hangup on, um, you know, yeah. I wanna grow to 50. Yeah. From three, like I love that about you. Yeah. Who gave you that very open can-do mind that you have.
Speaker 2 00:18:31 So I think it came from two things. One is my mom and the other is failure. Both very good friends of mine, <laugh> <laugh>. And so my mom, when I was little and my dad too, both my parents kind of believed that I could do anything. And I, and then I would just go try things and do them. But one of the best things that I did was I'd go out there and fail. You know, I remember I tried out for, um, I had not grown up playing a lot of sports and going to high school, I went from a private school to public school. I didn't have any friends. So I was trying out for all this stuff and I was going up against kids in the North Shore who had been, you know, given private lessons and lots. And I remember I told my mom, I'm gonna try for softball.
Speaker 2 00:19:08 And she's like, you are, you've never played. I'm like, so, and she's like, okay. And I went out and I remember them coming up to me and saying, um, what's what position do you play? And I literally didn't know any position. So I said I was a pitcher, <laugh>, I never touched a ball. So I actually made a couple rounds of cuts and then I was cut. But here's the thing that was so cool. I realized I didn't die, it didn't matter. And then I started making friends with failure and mistakes. And I started looking at them as like, awesome tools to learn. And when you can make friends with mistakes, the world is yours. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> like you are like, okay. And it does, I'm not saying it doesn't hurt me, discourage me, frustrate me. It does. And there are times where I have to like, huh, give myself a minute to like be frustrated and upset.
Speaker 2 00:19:49 And then I go, okay, there is something awesome I can learn from that. And from there I learned how to do this thing. And I ended up trying out this thing called palms, which is like a dancing cheerleading thing. The most elite difficult thing to make in my day. And I made it and it was like, still, it was like a, it was like an urban legend. Like did you know, there was this girl <laugh> who went out for Poms and she had never danced before and she made it. And I worked and I practiced till about 3:00 AM I found a good friend who danced a lot better. And she kind of mentored me. I started realizing like, well, if I don't make it, I don't make it. And if I do, I do. And all of a sudden the world becomes a playground if you can just kind of embrace it.
Speaker 2 00:20:26 And I think, but it did help me. I had a solid nest where I came from. Yeah. I had people who said, you can do it, or they, I believe in you, or they treated me with a lot of confidence that I could do things. And then, and I remember you similar said something similar. It's like, and I believed I could, and then I did. And I've done a lot of awesome things and I've made a lot of awesome mistakes. But when you learn from them, that's where most of, I say inspire was built on mistakes. Literally one after the next. And I just learned from that mistake. And I like, oh, and then you can get excited about it and be like, you know what? Let's tweak this. And this I was doing this morning, I was tweaking our interview process. I'm like, you know what? We need to ask this question because this person, you know, slipped through the cracks because we didn't ask enough about this. And so if you can get excited about if I, I get excited about it. And then it's like, it's just a game.
Speaker 1 00:21:11 Yeah. A hundred percent. I think, um, I always heard, if you're not failing, you're not going fast enough.
Speaker 2 00:21:16 Yes. I love that you said that. <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:21:18 And <laugh>. I love that because yeah. You know, you don't wanna break the wrong things. Right. But you wanna break little things. Yeah. That means, you know, the training wheels are falling off. Absolutely. And that's okay. Absolutely. How do you scale up? You, because I, I, you know, your energy, your light at a company that's getting bigger and bigger. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:21:35 Yep.
Speaker 1 00:21:35 Um, seems to me that is the thing that is needed to keep everybody so grounded and moving forward. Have you thought about that?
Speaker 2 00:21:42 Yeah. Yes. And it is, I have said many times, like I wish I could like duplicate myself like a multiplicity movie, which is like a long time ago, um, to be all around. But one of the things that I have really, um, been excited about is creating leaders within the company. And so I identify talent and I look for people who have their own light that shines and their own. There's like ways that I see in them. And I've realized that everybody's replaceable, including me. And so if I can train people to be their best light and shine, and I see that in them and I kind of, I've been raising them up, I have like leadership meetings and then giving them responsibility and letting them feel that feeling of making mistakes and learning and picking themselves up. That's really one of the things I've been most excited about is trying to scale.
Speaker 2 00:22:27 And it won't, and, and letting go of it won't be done just the way I would do it. Yeah. Um, that is difficult 'cause I'm like, I want it to be done just like my way, but realizing it my way is just my way. And other people have benefits and things that they do better than my way. And then there's things that we can work on if we look at and see like, oh, there's a mistake here. But when I investing in that, and I would say that's probably one of my biggest investments right now is in leadership and trying to help other people kind of rise up and do their thing within the company. But it is, it's a challenge 'cause you're, uh, there's only so much life force that each person has given and only so much time and life and, you know, there's so many directions I wanna go in at any given moment. <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:23:06 Lauren. So, you know, not a lot of people can scale their business past one location. And you've done it now multicenter. Yeah. Um, can you talk to me a little bit about how financed that dream? Yes,
Speaker 2 00:23:17 Absolutely. So, until very recently, we were completely debt free, which means that I'm a little bit like penny pincher. I can be very careful with my money. I get scared. I don't wanna be, you know, over my skis. So I really, that's what took me kind of a minute to do it slowly bit by bit. But, um, I also got an accounting team that helped me. I created this like, uh, I, I didn't create it, but I used the system where you kind of put money into buckets. So I started very small, right? So I rented a tiny little closet. I bought used furniture. It was like nothing fancy. And I just believed that if I did the right service, it would work. So then what had happened is every time I would make some money and a very, like the first year I think I made like $5,000 or $7,000.
Speaker 2 00:23:58 So I knew I was just laying the tracks. Um, but during that time what I would do is I would take a little bit of money. I opened like five different bank accounts. So one of the bank accounts was operating money. One of the bank accounts was saving, one of was payroll, which is silly 'cause it was me, but it was all building for the bigger thing. And then one of them was for taxes and then one of them was for profit. So that was kinda my fun little money, which was not a lot, but to begin with. So what happened was, every time I get paid, I got into the habit of putting that money into different buckets. Like imagine if you had like jars on a counter and you know, sometimes it didn't work. There was months where I was like, whoopsies, we, we have no money to put in any of these buckets and we just kind of get through that month.
Speaker 2 00:24:37 But over time, with doing that over in and out day after day, I would look at the, the pot of savings or look at the pot and I say, listen, I have enough to cover two, three months rent at a new place. I'm gonna do that. So I kind of just did slowly and surely. Um, I, the bank had to begged me to take a credit card 'cause I did everything debit. I did everything like, just very basic. Um, and then, you know, now I do have a credit card and we've taken to grow a little bit quicker, we have taken a line of credit, um, but not a large one just to kind of open it up and also our accountants that it would be good for our tax purposes. So, um, I really do try to stay within my means. So, because sometimes it does look exciting to grow, but if you are not sleeping at night with a mountain of debt hanging over your head, in my mind that wouldn't be worth it to me. And some people it is, I do believe like sometimes you gotta risk. Um, yeah. But I've been really like prudent with trying to do it in a way that isn't gonna put me in jeopardy of like, um, you know, doing much. I didn't come from much, so I don't have a lot to like fall back on. Um, so I kind of always been like very, uh, basic, if you will with my spending. I,
Speaker 1 00:25:49 I think that was just an in incredible example of how, again, like kind of an old school model, but it's just like discipline and routine in a business are so impactful. Yes. You know, do you have any feeling, so a lot of, you know, shiny entrepreneurs nowadays could say, wait, I can get to 50 centers. I can go out, raise debt. Yeah. Or, you know, debt or borrow money or kind of proven at this point, um, and pay it back slowly and then flip the company upstream. So yeah. That was worth it. Is that not in your own sort of, uh, equilibrium for ratio to debt? Like just that feeling? Is that just what doesn't give you energy? Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:26:26 For me that, and I think some people like if that's what juices you up in the morning and you're like willing to do that. I have been to Vegas a couple of times. I've never gambled a dollar. I just, I don't like to, that just doesn't sit well with me. And I think you have to listen to your energy and if someone's willing to do that, I mean, mean there are plenty of people that do that and they make a lot of money and it's very successful. So I wouldn't knock that. But for me, I'm a little too uncomfortable with that just because, you know, I have a family and I have all this stuff and I don't, I, and again, I don't like have much to fall back on. Yeah. So I kind of feel like I don't have that to play with as much.
Speaker 2 00:27:01 Um, that's not to say someday I wouldn't like consider, I think I'd wanna be a little bit, uh, bigger and have a little bit more reserves to fall back on. But it's not to say I wouldn't, um, buy some practices or flip things and try things better. But right now I just, I don't know, it's been working the way it is and it's doing well. So I kind of feel like I'm gonna keep plotting along a little bit like the dinosaur way. So like I try to be forward with a lot of my ideas and I have a lot of like, ways to try to make things newer. But then I also kind of have this old school kind of like tried and true, like you said, routines, patterns, kind of basic principles of things that I kind of follow. So it's sort of a weird, I always say I'm kind of a blend of like a hippie and like a corporate like kind of plus an old, old soul <laugh> and an old soul. Yes. Totally.
Speaker 1 00:27:43 All wrapped into one very youthful entrepreneur. That's good. Thanks for sharing that. I think it'll help the listeners. Absolutely. Who is your business bench who really helps you kind of formulate these ideas and work through what might work, what might not work that's maybe not in the company?
Speaker 2 00:28:00 So, well it was my husband. He, and he wasn't in the company. Now he is. So it's sort of like a twofold thing. But, um, he has been a real mentor for me in the business world. But then separately than that, I also have had, um, I found a group, actually it was a grad student, um, that I was, we were both peers with and she was so far ahead of me and she was so business savvy and she was going for it. We a time when I was not, and I would get meet with her for coffees and I would pick her brain and she was such a great support for me. And now she has this unbelievable business where she helps other therapists and I said, you should, I should pay you for this. And she's like, well, we're friends. And I said, well you should be doing this.
Speaker 2 00:28:39 And she has created an unbelievable practice where she helps other, um, therapy practices grow. So she will share her mistakes, she'll share about things that she's done. You can download her packets and you pay to be part of a membership. And she does different stuff too. But she has been a real visionary for me. Hmm. Um, and then as part of that, I'm in a group with a lot of other, like a kinda a Facebook digital group with other practice owners across the country. So I'm kind of, I'm always able to kind of look and see like, what are they doing? What do I like that they're doing? What do I wanna do different? And um, so that has been really helpful for me to just kind of see and look around. And, um, also have someone that's ahead of me.
Speaker 1 00:29:18 I'm wondering if there's another business model similar to yours, people reliant mm-hmm. <affirmative> delivering a service that you can also look to for ideas. Because the two things you mentioned are both in the area of scaling up therapy. Yep. But yet in my view, you're gonna take this thing further than any chain of therapy centers has. Yeah. Yeah. And it'd be neat to look forward to, like whether it's, you know, national law firms or national real estate companies Yeah. Where they have a similar type model to you Yeah. And see what they're doing. Yeah. To, to advance uh, as quickly as you want to. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 00:29:55 It's so funny 'cause this is exactly the conversation I was having yesterday when we were driving back from one of our sites. I said, we need to look at exactly outside the therapy model because I do, I wanna do things differently. Not completely, radically different, but I do in a different, and a couple of the models I was looking at was either attorneys and kind of the law firm style 'cause it's very similar mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the other was healthcare. And I was, I was getting this dream of like, what we see a lot of that's growing and booming in healthcare are urgent care centers. And so I was literally just yesterday brainstorming, how could we bring therapy to urgent care where sometimes you can't wait 24. We are pretty fast about getting people in. Yeah. But how could we make it faster to get people in if they, you know, sometimes you're in a crisis and that you need to drive right there.
Speaker 2 00:30:36 And we'll have people sometimes come walk into our center and say, I need to talk to someone. And luckily for those couple times we've been able to handle it, but that's only 'cause it was on the fly. And I, so one of the things I'm like, how can we make our business more readily available faster? And the urgent care centers are popping up everywhere. So that's one of the business models I've been recently looking at. 'cause I'm like, they, we need to try to, if they are doing it, there's things for me to learn too. So I, but I do think it is, it's exactly where I'm at it looking outside of the counseling world
Speaker 1 00:31:05 Is the digital model. I've, I've heard these ads for, you know, oh you can zoom and all these things with a therapist. Is that something you're interested in at all? No,
Speaker 2 00:31:13 It's not. And I, I, you know what God love 'em for doing it. Like that's great. Like better help. And they've got like great business models. They kill me on Google ads, but we still do really well in the local sector. But I, for me, and I think for some people it is wonderful and for the right people it is perfect for me. I really believe that the healing and that connection comes from face-to-face, um, interactions like being, and that's one of the reasons I wanna go to college towns or go to places that don't have a lot of centers because there is something about being face-to-face, knee to knee with somebody in a quiet space that's outside of your home, that's a new place that's safe that just begins to create a new possibility for people. So while I am not opposed, 'em, I have no negative feelings towards the, they, they're doing a fabulous job and a very we'll always offer virtual, uh, sessions. But my preference is in person. I know sort of old school and it kind of goes against like all the things that we're seeing progressing. But I'm kind of, I'm kind of committed to seeing if I can kind of do it the dinosaur way because I just think that's the way that like real change happens. That said, I see my therapist virtually. So it's not to say I don't believe it can work, it does. But I really want my model to be something impactful that changes people's lives.
Speaker 1 00:32:30 It's incredible. I think, um, you know, you've got a model that's got a massive why you're helping, you know, loads and loads of people, which is so great. You've got a business brain to be able to scale this up. So, you know, on the days where you just don't feel it, you don't have to do that kind of work. You can do leadership work, which gives you so much energy. And I think you've identified that, you know, if connection, which is your real belief, um, which I also believe is an eyeball to eyeball sport. Yeah. Yeah. Um, is the make or break for your business, then you just stay in your lane and put the pedal down. Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with that. It doesn't mean you're not taking influences from things, making things more modern. Yeah. Doing them differently. Better decor. It just means that you are recognizing what works and for your particular customer and client that's gonna be meaningful. Yeah. And for your therapist, that's gonna be meaningful. Yeah. Um, so wishing, inspire and use all the best. And, and I think we're gonna just put that down at 50 50 <laugh> locations in five years. Let's go girl. <laugh> may as well try. It's pretty incredible. Well, if anybody can do it, it's, you can do it. Thank you
Speaker 1 00:33:46 Lauren. This is the part of the Lady Boss podcast where we do our fast five. We just ask a couple questions and see we get your insight. Okay. Um, do you have any good business books that you'd recommend to the listeners? Yes.
Speaker 2 00:33:57 One book The Slight Edge by Jeff Olson. It is the foundation of that I built everything on. And it's not actually just about business, it's about life and how to get ahead with your health, your wealth, everything. It's very simple, very basic, very easy to follow.
Speaker 1 00:34:11 Yep. Thank you. All right. Don't know it. I'm excited to get it. Yeah. Give us one tailwind in your business.
Speaker 2 00:34:18 I would say the thing I'm most fortunate and the industry is, is the work that so many amazing people have done to de-stigmatize counseling. People don't feel the same way they did before. In fact, many people are proud of having a therapist. Um, and that stands on the, I'm standing on the shoulders of many people who've worked very, very hard to help make that more appreciated and acknowledged in the community.
Speaker 1 00:34:41 That's good. And flip that then, what would be a headwind of the business?
Speaker 2 00:34:45 I would say a lot of it is like the turnover, like you were talking about, um, in the challenges of getting the right people to do the right work. Um, and just, just to kind of all of the, uh, nuances that go with leading large teams. Yep.
Speaker 1 00:35:02 Tell me your superpower. You can only pick one. I'm sure you have 10, but what would be your top superpower?
Speaker 2 00:35:09 I would say my energy <laugh>. Um,
Speaker 1 00:35:13 I would've guessed that <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:35:16 Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:35:16 Just morning till night. You you run that high. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:35:19 Yeah. And I, but I also do a lot to protect my energy. Um, so I do come in when I know I'm gonna shine bright, but I have an energy that I find not unlike yourself, but I most people don't necessarily have as much of that energy. I can work a lot <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:35:39 That's awesome. Well exploited 'cause you got it. Yeah. Yeah. <laugh>. Um, and then if you had, um, you know, a kind of gun to your head and they said, okay, you gotta grow the business the most, you can grow it in 12 months, what would be the one lever you'd push?
Speaker 2 00:35:54 I would say I would probably hire more psychiatrists. We just started adding a new feature. We had hired one psychiatrist, but I would add, um, more services basically to our, our model.
Speaker 1 00:36:06 So people who can prescribe
Speaker 2 00:36:08 Medicine Yeah. Pre Yeah. Medication versus just
Speaker 1 00:36:09 Okay. Therapy. Okay. Because the higher price points, um, yeah. And it more complex cases. More
Speaker 2 00:36:16 Complex cases. And then what it will do eventually too is it creates more clients to be counseled and adding another business. So it kind of does twofold. One, it'll attract new people that just really want the medication that they potentially could be getting support too, to learn the life skills, but also it double dips from the CL people we're already serving, gives us another service that they could utilize. So we're almost like marketing within our existing clientele. So offering them things that they're doing outside of our center, but bringing it inside our center to do it my way. <laugh>, we call,
Speaker 1 00:36:48 We call that cross sell upsell in the business world. <laugh>. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's good. Yeah. All right. Thanks for sharing. We love having you on the Lead Bus podcast. Thank you.
