Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: On this episode of Lady Boss, Courtney sits down with Trish Thomas and Nicole Wilson from everybody eat. They share how they built a booming cracker empire while giving back to the community.
[00:00:11] Speaker B: Okay, so how did two powerful, super intelligent women split the duties?
[00:00:16] Speaker C: Ooh, that's a good one. So I think that what we've done is, originally, we split the duties based on what we thought our skills were and found ourselves doing exactly the opposite. So I'm the investment banker. She runs the models. I'm the one who is in the factory doing operations and under equipment that's not working.
[00:00:37] Speaker A: And I've run a manufacturing company before.
We both learn how to learn new skills. When you stop learning, you die.
[00:00:46] Speaker C: That's right.
[00:00:47] Speaker B: How did that happen? I knew you're an investment banker, but you're spending your time on the raise, which we'll get to, but you're spending your time with the people and making the property.
[00:00:55] Speaker A: Right.
[00:00:55] Speaker C: That's exactly right.
[00:00:56] Speaker B: Just felt more natural when you got there.
[00:00:58] Speaker C: I mean, it's one of those where you stretch.
[00:01:01] Speaker B: Right?
[00:01:02] Speaker C: And so some of it had to do with just where we were located. And so, as we split our duties, I have spent some time in manufacturing with just the mergers and acquisitions background. And so I said, okay, so I'll be here on the ground, and you're out front. You're doing the raise. You're working with the investors, that piece. And then we said, these are our lanes. And whatever comes with that lane, you got to own it.
[00:01:25] Speaker A: Well, Covid helped a little bit.
[00:01:26] Speaker C: Covid did help.
[00:01:27] Speaker A: I mean, Covid impacted a lot. So when we launched on March 1, 2020, and on March 11, 2020, we.
[00:01:32] Speaker B: Shut it all down.
[00:01:33] Speaker A: Moved 900 cases.
[00:01:34] Speaker B: I just did a whole boss fight about, don't fucking talk about COVID anymore. Today, this morning, I was like, I'm so sick of talking about COVID People don't talk about COVID in their business. That's three years ago.
[00:01:44] Speaker A: Okay, we won't talk about it. But how we really ended up doing what we're doing is that we had another co founder that used to run huge factories for P G. And he got Covid, and he was out for six months, and then he came back, and then he got Covid again, and he wasn't able to come back to work. And so during that time, Nicole became a manufacturing expertise because she was doing all the manufacturing. Know, this is my fourth company, so I have a deep bench in the legal, the finance, the fundraising. But I'm really, like, a marketer and a salesperson at heart, and I don't really do any of this. None of it?
[00:02:23] Speaker C: Absolutely none.
[00:02:24] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. Okay, so day to day, there's how many people at the company?
[00:02:28] Speaker C: So in the whole company, there are 42. And on site at the factory, there are 33. 33. Okay.
[00:02:34] Speaker B: And you're in the process of moving. And what I thought so cool is that a lot of the people that you may want to take with you might not have the means, resources, or passion to move from Chicago to Evanston. Is that fair?
[00:02:48] Speaker C: That's true.
[00:02:49] Speaker B: So tell me some of those really creative ways that you worked with the city. I thought that was genius.
[00:02:54] Speaker C: So us, in working with the city, we know that we've got a workforce that is unique. And so our workforce is about. 65% have been involved in the criminal justice system. 20% were homeless when they came to us. 85% people of color. Our production floor is almost 100% african american. And so we have a group that hails from the south and west sides of Chicago and who are really tied to geography, but they a great home with us. And so what we've thought about is that move from the south or west side of Chicago to Evanston, we've got to think about, like, a full on relocation. So for many people, it's not just a drive up the highway. It is a complete culture shock and culture shift. So working with the city to think about what can we put in place from a workforce development standpoint, what can we put in place for housing, affordable housing? How can we partner for childcare? What are some of the big barriers, including transportation, that may keep those who want to come to Evanston from coming to Evanston? And so what's the employer appropriate way to help them with those hurdles?
[00:03:59] Speaker A: But I also think that you brought something to the game that is uniquely you, is that you recognize privilege by proxy.
[00:04:08] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:04:09] Speaker A: And you're accessible, and you have single handedly changed people's lives. Like, share with Courtney the story about Anthony and the bank.
[00:04:19] Speaker C: Well, so the privilege with proxy. Privilege with proxy is a term that kind of came to me as I thought about how do we, as a leadership team, leverage our privilege in service of others and in service of our team? And so what Trisha is referencing is one of our employees, hourly employee, Anthony. We were so excited because he was getting stabilized, and so he was now able to get a car, and so I had to do employment verification. He showed up, he had a sheet of paper, and he's like, okay, I've got them on the phone. You just have to verify my employment. So I thought, this should be easy. Let me see the contract. And I took a look at it, and an interest rate was 27% on a car, a leased car that was, like, five or six years old. And immediately I was like, give me the phone. And he didn't want to because he's like, whatever this thing is that's coming out of you, right? He's like, I've never seen you so angry. And so immediately, I got on the phone, and what started to be a conversation between this person at this loan shark place and an hourly worker, they now were talking to a Stanford MBA about predatory lending practices. So flipping the script on the power dynamic in that conversation, getting it down to 14% because we still had to work on Anthony's credit for a while, but then teaching him how to have that conversation next time he finds himself in that position. And so that, for me, is we talk about it. We don't give fish. We teach to fish.
[00:05:46] Speaker A: Well, I do love the bank story also.
[00:05:48] Speaker C: Oh, the bank. So, yes, this is Anthony, too. Oh, my goodness. But so one of the issues is that a number of folks on our team weren't bankable. And so as we were doing direct deposit, I'm finding that folks are putting money on cards that are getting lost on buses that are getting lost on the train, et cetera. And I said, I want you to go into your bank and try to develop a relationship with a bank, knowing what the outcome might be. And so a few of them came back and said, well, they won't talk to me. They won't make an appointment with me. They keep sending me out. So I said, okay, well, you know what? Here's what we're going to do. I've got a bank that I've been at for 25 years. Get in the car. So put them in the front seat, drove them there, made the appointment ahead of time, and then sat down with the banking agent and said, pull up my account. And so they pull up my account. Oh, you've been with us for 25 years. They're all excited to talk to me. And I said, stop. Take that grace that you were just about to shower upon me and shower it upon the person next to me, because that's actually why we're here. And then it's a very different conversation about finding the right account for that person, but also lending them my privilege in the moment so that they could get the respect they need to get access to what they need to become bankable.
[00:07:00] Speaker B: I think smart, lucky, successful, well reared people like all of us have so many privileges and you can make more money and grow your company more and all that stuff, and that comes with the job you have. But the reality is there's nothing more fulfilling than what you're doing with Anthony and all these people. And I found the same in going from service to manufacturing. Know, they're skilled in many ways, but they're so unskilled in so many ways that we can help them and change lives.
[00:07:32] Speaker C: Sure, absolutely.
[00:07:32] Speaker B: And the metric is really like now, how much are we selling and how many customers we got, how long and how many people's lives have we changed as a result of having this opportunity?
[00:07:42] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:07:43] Speaker A: When you look at manufacturing as part of wealth creation, the oldest families and the wealthiest families made stuff.
[00:07:52] Speaker C: Right?
[00:07:53] Speaker A: And one of the concerns for me is a lot of people stay away from manufacturing because they don't want to touch it. It's capital intensive.
The funding community doesn't like manufacturing. But if we don't continue to make stuff in the same way you're making stuff and we make stuff, who's going to make it, right? And where do those jobs go? Right. And it's so important that people manufacture, but as a sector, there's not a lot of money there.
[00:08:18] Speaker B: It's hard, it's hard work and it is came up for me. So a workforce, I think, super hard hiring market, you've picked a lane that's both fulfilling and good for your company.
[00:08:31] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:08:32] Speaker B: But it doesn't always go so well when people have that much grit before they get to work and that much out of office drama.
What can go wrong in this sector and what are the things that sort of make it just something that you've got to work around, basically.
[00:08:48] Speaker C: Sure. So I think it's really having a sense knowing your team and understanding what each individual story is. And so that sometimes gives you the background to anticipate what's coming, sometimes telling them what's coming based on decisions and choices that they're making. But then it's being ready to just be nimble and reactive. So for us, two years ago, every single person during that summer lost an immediate family member to gun violence. Every single person. And so there were days where we would have on a shift of twelve, four or five people out at the same time at funerals. And so that was one where we just had to figure out, how do you weather a grieving workforce and be a place where there is empathy and there's compassion and your grief and your tears are welcome here, but we still have a job to do. And so that's one where you have to very delicately navigate this balance between empathy and this is a job because as much as it is fulfilling and we're changing lives, our workforce is our competitive advantage. And if they're not coming to work, we don't have that advantage. So that's a big one that's there for us. And another is that there's, I guess, leading with sort of a velvet hammer sometimes, where you've got to be able to say, I love you, I care about you. Here's a little tough love, because if you don't get your act together, this is going to be a completely different conversation. And our team understands you've invested in them, and you're coming from a place of love and care, but you can still hold them very highly accountable because their peers who are delivering are doing the same.
[00:10:28] Speaker B: Would they take that same message from you?
[00:10:35] Speaker A: I don't know. I mean, I would hope so, because I haven't been on the manufacturing floor in this facility.
When we go to the new one, I will be right. And I would expect so, because I would treat everybody the same. But I think that the trick is the mattering.
[00:10:50] Speaker C: Right.
[00:10:52] Speaker A: We had some consultants come in, I don't know, April 2001. Right?
And they were bakery consultants. They came in with some suggestions, and as people listened to the suggestions, they had their own ideas. And then we started to listen to their own ideas. And then when people started to see that we would actually listen to them, they contributed more. And you could see the change in our financials like that because our cost of goods sold slowly went down. But then the more you let humans know they matter and contribute, sometimes accidents happen, like the soul pass in the oven. Somebody had an idea on how to do it better.
[00:11:24] Speaker C: That was a disaster.
[00:11:27] Speaker A: But when you decide culturally that people are going to matter and you really let them matter, it's really different, and it's a different environment, and Nicole gets 100% of the credit. But sometimes people make mistakes, and you're like, well, okay, you made a mistake, but nine other other things that you did made us better, right? I think it's about matter.
[00:11:52] Speaker B: We're getting mbas here, and the company is impacted financially by it. But as long as you don't make this mistake again, we learned something that was very valuable.
[00:12:00] Speaker C: There you go. We roll the tape back. What was the root cause? So, that's one thing we're always talking about. What was the root cause of this particular mistake? What are the processes that we don't have in place to keep it from happening again. And then it becomes a lesson in change management at the end. And so that's how we fail forward. And Trish has, with her curriculum and talking about reframing failure, we do that on a daily basis. And so our team gets to learn a bit of that resilience that we have to have as founders.
[00:12:32] Speaker A: But, I mean, I do think the other piece, though, is that when people look up and they see themselves, it gives them new hope. So if Nicole was a white woman, she'd still be as badass as she is as a black woman. But I'm sure that the fact that the team can look up and see you and see the families is the same. But we don't look at each other this way. We just want them to look up and see some people that are really committed to what they're doing. That took a chance, but it wasn't a chance. We did the research before we started, and that understanding that anybody can create something from nothing.
[00:13:11] Speaker B: Yeah. So powerful. So, as you look forward, what are the big milestones for the company that regardless of time, what are the real big markers that have to happen?
[00:13:22] Speaker A: Well, our biggest challenge is we've been trying to build a scalable manufacturing facility from the start. And we'll never know if we were men, if we would have had an easier time of it. But for us moving into the new facility and then outgrowing it as fast as possible, we know in this facility we can get to about $50 million, and our goal is to put the pedal to the metal. So in a couple of years, we're actually looking at how do we get into 100,000 square foot facility?
[00:13:52] Speaker B: And would that be a 24/7 shift to get to that number, or would that be a one shift operation? So you go to the new facility. Are you 24 hours now?
[00:14:01] Speaker C: We're not 24 hours now, but the new facility is now in a location where it's safe for our team to run. Twenty four seven.
[00:14:08] Speaker B: And so that is part of you'll run 24/7 but there's also another way to do growth.
[00:14:14] Speaker A: Right. One way is you could build a monster facility. But what we've really proven is that an urban workforce is a good workforce. So I also see that there'll be choices in growth where we could build another facility. On the other side of the Rockies, we make pretty lightweight product, so we're shipping air. Right. So you could take the same thing that we've learned. Model another facility on the other side of the Rockies. Use TIF markets, new market tax credits.
We're starting to talk to people about having some academics measure our workforce development so that we can share how it's done. But then we could do it because we're not afraid to work with groups of people. And I really believe that any urban area in the country would welcome us with open arms because of what we've done.
[00:15:01] Speaker C: Yeah, 100%.
[00:15:02] Speaker B: Okay. So new, bigger. I mean, getting into this facility and getting it functional, obviously, and then getting that sales number and then a second one. And I think you just said it, growth can have it in a lot of ways. So you'll obviously be approached by lots of people to buy the company at some mile marker, wherever the cracker sort of threshold starts, 5 million or 3 million or whatever it is. Would that be something that's appealing or.
[00:15:32] Speaker A: We didn't start out to build a cracker company. We set out to build a brand that fostered consumer trust, love, and loyalty, that people could shop around the store. And the problem we're trying to solve is eating with other people, which means the food has to be so good that people without a special diet would eat it. Right. So I think that as we look at growth, it's not necessarily going to be who's going to pay us the highest check. It's going to say who can partner with us to get to the next level. Right.
And it's about stacking your intelligence. So most of our investors have deep expertise in a lot of things that pertain to what we do. And so what we found is that the humans add value, but we have quite a Runway. And I think it's been, our advantage is that we can take the long road versus. It was like, let's scale something up as fast as we can and flip it.
[00:16:26] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:16:26] Speaker A: So we're playing the long game.
[00:16:28] Speaker C: That's right.
[00:16:28] Speaker A: Cool.
[00:16:29] Speaker B: I love that. And so if you had to summarize, what were the hardest. Aha. About being two women in business, what do you think? They would be different for each of the roles you're playing. But I think for both of you, what would that be?
[00:16:43] Speaker C: I mean, there's some. It's funny, because you grew up in investment banking and you grew up in all of these different industries where your consumer products, consumer packaged goods, but you're the youngest in the room, the brownest in the room for a very long time. And so you kind of build that muscle around it. But it's always interesting when you hop on a manufacturing call and there's a zoom and there are ten men on the call. And all of a sudden you start hearing things like sweetheart, dear girl, these sort of things. And I'm like, I'm 47. Haven't been a girl for a really long time, sir. And then you literally just run down the list of everything you need. Here's how you need it, here's how it's going to go. And everybody sits up a little bit straighter in their rectangle. Those are ones where you get off the call and you're like, that was exhausting for no reason. Like it just didn't have to be. So it's that extra mental load and effort that you have to put forth where you're consistently proving yourself. But by this point, I've gotten pretty good at it and so is Trish. So you just weather it and walk into it, but you're constantly being underestimated and you're constantly being devalued in your knowledge and you just sort of five.
[00:17:57] Speaker B: Words out of your mouth and I would back out of the.
[00:18:01] Speaker A: Whatever you say.
[00:18:02] Speaker B: I mean, both of, I'm like, why? It's unnecessary grip.
[00:18:06] Speaker A: Nicole doesn't even say anything. She could just raise an eyebrow and I'm leaving.
[00:18:10] Speaker C: I do have an eyebrow that I used to try to tame, but I don't anymore.
[00:18:14] Speaker A: I mean, our superpower is that we came from totally different places and I became an entrepreneur. I think I started my first business at eleven and I got tall really fast and my mom and my parents got divorced and we didn't have any money and I couldn't afford to buy pants. I didn't want to ask my mom. So I started employing everybody in the neighborhood and I was kind of the babysitting madam and then got busy and built and sold my first company right out of college and did some other things. But I don't think about being a woman in business anymore, except when it comes to capital because our initial plan was private equity fundable years ago, but we didn't approach it that way. But I think it's our secret weapon at this point. And I think that the value of being women is understanding the power of networks. Because when you look at how you create change and social change, at the end of the day, what we're really trying to do is create change. And what I mean by that is how we know we won is you walk into a Super bowl party and everybody can eat. Because we've changed the paradigm that people now think about it, right? And they think about what they serve food. But how you create change is in like a fishnet, right? So you need to take overlapping networks of people before change is possible. Change doesn't happen. A pandemic happens like fireworks, but change happens like a fishnet. And nobody's better at doing that than it's. I think it's an advantage. And the fact that at this stage of the game, people underestimate us the second we walk in the room. Right?
And then they're like, did you meet at Stanford? We're like, now we met at the book fair at our kids'school, and no one knows what to do with.
[00:20:07] Speaker C: I.
[00:20:07] Speaker A: Mean, they just really don't know what to do with it.
We've had investor calls where we've made a conscious effort to keep women on our cap table so we can keep our women on status. And women will say, well, can you do a call with my husband? And I said, sure. And then the husband might get on the phone and say, I'm going to ask you a couple of tough questions. I don't want you to think that you're not supportive of your business.
And I'm like, really? I can handle bring it on. But it happens, right? And so it's, how do you take being a woman and make it an advantage, not a disadvantage. The other thing that I would love is if they can stop calling women and businesses run by people of color and veterans disadvantaged businesses. Right? Makes me crazy. We're eligible for a whole bunch of things as a woman owned secret weapon, but they call us we're disadvantaged, whatever.
[00:21:02] Speaker B: Let them think it. As long as I give you the money, they grow as big as you want.
I think that your story is just pretty impactful. I think you have very smart brains. That's a given. But you could have done a lot of things that would have been a lot easier, probably.
[00:21:18] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
[00:21:21] Speaker B: And I mean this in the highest respect. Like, you took something that was pretty hard because you're changing people's mindset about food, took employee base. That is not the straight path to employee base. And yet I think that that is your authenticity about and values are why the brand is going to be such a huge success and already is in such short order. So I think it's an incredible story, and the two of you are incredible. I just love hearing it. Gives people, all of us, a lot to think about.
[00:21:51] Speaker C: Well, thank you. Thank you for that. And we stand on the shoulders of giants. I mean, there are so many who have along the way I can speak, have poured into me, have invested in me as a person. And so I think that when I think about walking with purpose and walking with intention, it is paying back that which was given to me and then making sure that those who I pour into know. My only ask is that you go out and you do the same thing for someone else.
[00:22:19] Speaker B: Yeah. So how do you guys deal with office staff that might say they want to work from home? Does that ever happen to you?
[00:22:27] Speaker C: It does.
I think that for us, it depends on who the staff we have.
[00:22:33] Speaker A: Like one person.
[00:22:35] Speaker C: One person I know, besides. But I do think that depending on what your function is, it's more important for you to be in the office. And so if your function is really around.
[00:22:48] Speaker B: I know about marketing. Brand Cracker maker has to be there when you.
[00:22:51] Speaker C: Well, actually the cracker maker. But sometimes it's like we've got our sales team, our marketing team tends to be more remote. And there are times when I think it's important to come back home and anchor down and really see, because you have the benefit of seeing the product actually being made, the love that goes into it, the difficulty with it, the zero sum game, when you've got constrained manufacturing, and when you go to talk about the brand and talk about the business, you're able to do so with much richer texture. If you've been on the ground.
[00:23:27] Speaker B: On the ground, except that we have.
[00:23:31] Speaker A: A lot of people remote because those are the best people for the job. So the woman who's our controller works in Geneva, Illinois. She lives in Geneva, Illinois. Our head of sales was in Chicago for years, but his family's in Atlanta, so we let him go to.
So. And we really have a very lean office space. One of the reasons is that we haven't had a good office space to work because there's no walls and it's a manufacturing facility. So I don't go to the office because I'm on the phone all day.
There's nowhere to talk. So that's probably not a great.
For us. That's not a relevance thing yet. But everybody's coming in when we move.
[00:24:10] Speaker C: Janelle comes to the factory, though, and when she's there, she's like, I always love when I'm here. I think it's different. But she's also got a background in manufacturing, so she sees it. So I don't know. I think there's some time, like some things I think. But, I mean, you breathe the essence of the company. I think other folks are learning it, and I think some of it you got to learn by.
[00:24:29] Speaker A: Yeah, I do think that people need to be together? Yeah.
[00:24:31] Speaker B: We have, like, I don't know, 25 people that are office workers, say. And some of them are like, no, only the highest paid, most entitled, one or two are the ones who want to work from home. And I'm like, but the girl who's an hourly worker, we have to get her kids to daycare, be here in her seat at eight. Why is it so hard for you, Miss Double six figures, that you got to.
So I've been on wgs talking about this a lot, because during the pandemic, we have 50,000 sqft, everybody. We didn't even have to mask for some periods because we have 24 foot high buildings. We had the stuff, but we were super careful. We were wiping doors doing all that. But being together was so important. It's how we got through the war.
Our war buddies were there. We were going to, yeah, let's get this order.
[00:25:22] Speaker A: Let's do it.
[00:25:22] Speaker B: We were just being so nimble. So now this. It's so hard to come to the office. I'm like, but the guy, anthony, my Anthony, was up with his seven kids last night, and now he's here glowing. Why is it so hard? Oh, because you got to go to the dry cleaner and make your dinner, take care of your dad at lunch, do all these very great things.
[00:25:41] Speaker C: When we were at your house, though, we were hunkered down. It was the trenches.
[00:25:45] Speaker A: No, not you.
[00:25:47] Speaker C: It was our whole.
[00:25:48] Speaker A: If I couldn't go to the office.
[00:25:49] Speaker B: But I'd be happy because there's no disruptions. I mean, the disruptions. I get nothing done in my office.
[00:25:53] Speaker A: But I also think, though, that it's been an extraordinary couple of years.
[00:25:59] Speaker B: It's a good win.
[00:25:59] Speaker A: But as you build your team, so you already had a team that went through the change of working from home together, and we're going to build a team, and our goal always be to hire the best people for the job. But if part of the culture is.
[00:26:13] Speaker B: We'Re all in this together, that's smart.
[00:26:17] Speaker A: Then we're going to build that culture. One of my favorite things, because we have six boys this is dear to my heart, is that Gandhi said, be the change you want to be in the world. Including the toilet paper. Right.
The first person cleaning the toilets in the new facility is me, 100%.
Because I think that once you show people that you're not afraid to get dirty and that everything is everybody's job, right, that you have to model it, and we have it a little bit easier because we're going to build our team and we can lay that culture down versus people that had a culture. The pandemic that we're not going to talk about happened and now you have to reset. We don't really have that problem.
[00:26:57] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I mean, your controller doesn't empty the garbage like we empty our own garbage. We don't clean ladies empty the garbage. We empty our garbage. So if one man's out of rotation, that's like the other 49 have to pick up the slack. So I just think it's just like building a culture where everybody. Because I'm sure it looks like some people think Deanna dust job is a harder job or what you do is a harder job. Well, it might be harder for Anthony to be making crackers all day. We don't know. Maybe he.
I think being in the office is so not very popular. I know right now people love the flexibility of, you know, back to the question about how to blend it. It's like there is time to be in the office and work on the culture and be there for your team, whatever level you are in that company.
[00:27:42] Speaker A: But I also think there's going to be different ways to do it. Courtney, you and I get up really early, right? Yeah. So my day, even when we go to the office, is going to start at 05:00 in the morning.
[00:27:51] Speaker B: Totally.
[00:27:52] Speaker A: But at 03:00 in the morning or 03:00 in the morning, I'm not up yet. But at 330 in the afternoon, I can see that I may end my work day at the office early because I have a son that needs a little bit of extra help.
[00:28:07] Speaker C: Right.
[00:28:07] Speaker A: But Nicole may roll in later and stay later than I am.
But I do think there's that kind of flexibility. In the past, I ran a very creative business. We created television and books and the writers and the artists, really, they just fundamentally could not get to work at 08:00 in the morning. They couldn't because they did their craft late at night. And we finally said, all right, you guys can come in ten, but you got to show up.
And that worked for them. Right. And they'd stay really late at night. And so I think there's creating boundaries and expectations, but it's kind of, if you create fomo, like, if you don't show up, you're going to miss out and make it fun. Right. Because then people want to come to work.
[00:28:51] Speaker B: When does the new office open or the facility? I know that's a slide.
[00:28:54] Speaker A: We're looking February.
[00:28:56] Speaker C: February. February 2024. So not too far.
[00:28:59] Speaker B: Okay. I thought that contractor is like, we're.
[00:29:03] Speaker C: Giving everybody a little extra. A little buffer.
[00:29:06] Speaker B: Okay, well, this is super fun. I'm super fascinated about watching.
[00:29:12] Speaker C: How?
[00:29:12] Speaker B: I mean, you guys are incredibly professional, but this is no small startup company. This thing's going to the moon.
[00:29:20] Speaker C: We sure hope so close.
